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Look at the difference between the posts that the guys write on this forum versus the ones that the women write.
Short Version: Guys have to catch a woman's attention. Guys have to make the first move. Guys have to gain her trust and approval. The woman makes the final decision.
A woman basically just has to sit back and wait for the offers to come in. Guys have to get out there and make s--t happen. There are some guys who are attractive enough to regularly have women come over and start hitting on them, but those are usually guys who are in the Top 5% range of attractiveness and a really good looking guy has the pulling power of a decent looking woman.
And also dating. A woman's biggest hurdle is finding a guy she likes and by "like" I mean that she finds attractive, likes his personality, ideally has a good job, performs well in bed (once it gets that far), doesn't have any habits she finds objectionable, and so on.
A guy's hurdle is finding a woman who will put up with him.
Now, the problem isn't merely being attractive enough or being engaging enough. Most guys are ugly. Hardly GQ material, but decent looking enough. Most guys aren't also socially retarded, but we have to put up with a lot before we pull off a successful one-night stand, fling, or relationship.
It's a lot like working in sales to be honest. For every sale you get, you have to put up with a lot of people who are "just browsing", who string you along, and people who are just rude before you actually make that sale. Put even making the sale itself is not easy. You often have to jump hoops and try your damnest to close the deal. Only instead of a boss pressuring you to make your target; you have your own biological instincts, ego, friends, family, and society pushing you.
It's not easy. It's not always hard, but it can get frustrating and tiring.
Now, look at the women who ask for advice about relationships. One question I have seen on this board a couple of times and have heard a few times from my female friends is, "How do you ask a guy out?" We are not talking about 14 year old girls here, but adult women in their 20s and 30s. That is the difference. The first thing we learn is how to ask the opposite sex out. Women are so used to guys making the first move that the idea that they might have to do it themselves to get a guy they like is completely alien to them.
Another one is rejection. With the exception of getting dumped; women rarely deal with rejection. Guys get rejected more than they succeed. Even really good looking guys with a reputation for sleeping around still get rejected quite a bit. In fact, they mostly develop that reputation because they never let it get to them. When women put themselves out there and get rejected; they either are crush or get VERY angry. For instance, a while back I had a girl who asked me out, but did so in a very clumsy way and to be honest I didn't even realize it. Since it is my natural instinct to decline anything I don't fully understand; I said no. She responded by going from sweet to venomous and said, "You think you're better than me?! I should've known you were a f---t." and stormed off.
Picture the sexes reversed for a second to get an idea of how f--ked up that reaction was.
Also, we often don't know what to do. Everyone is different. Not only different, but vastly different. Every single woman has different standards and they vary drastically. What one woman find funny another finds deeply offensive. What is a subtle hint for one woman means absolutely nothing to another. Some women want you to chase them and others want you to "get the hint". What one woman finds sweet another might find pathetic. What might be crude to one woman is refreshingly forward to another. One woman might like a guy approaching her at Starbucks and another would think, "I'm just here for coffee, creep."
The first reaction might be, "Duh. Women are individuals and thus are not all the same person. Did you just figure this out, Frank?" Of course not. But it does explain why guys are so inconsistent and why so many of us are nervous asking a woman out (even if we don't show it). Also, what might lead to a successful date or whatever with one woman might make you look like the biggest loser or sleazebag to another.
And to explain what it is like to be a guy on the dating scene (and many other aspects) here is a woman who took on the persona of man. So it is a perspective on being a man from a woman:
Disclaimer: These are just some of my observations and opinions regarding sex, dating, and relationships in general from a male point of view. It is not intended to be critical towards women in general nor even most of the women I seem to criticize in this post (except that one who threw a temper tantrum and called me a "f----t"; she was a psycho b---h). My point is that one sex does most of the pursuing. There is also nothing wrong with having standards.
Nor does it directly relate to any of my personal failings with women. I have more of a mixed record to be honest and on this forum I focus on the failures because I'd rather gain some perspective on what is broken rather than what isn't. I can't remember who said it, but it is our flaws are what make us more interesting than our strengths.
I don't think OP's views on women matter at all. I know plenty of legitimate misogynists that attract hot women with ease.
My guess (without knowing him) is that he either:
1) is not all that (like he says he is)
2) does not approach
3) does not know how to talk to women
4) misreads signals from women (which, imo, is very normal....since women can be very difficult to read)
I concur. This is pretty much my collection of thoughts on it as well. Except the first point, which likely doesn't matter much.
He has already stated that he doesn't approach. That's a huge barrier right there.
Plenty of guys who are misogynists and/or narcissists attract women and have plenty of dates. Plenty of guys attract women regardless of looks, appearance, or social status.
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Not likely to decrease his options at all. His problem is his take on women.
Appearance decreases dating options. Doesn't ruin them. Some people like one type or another. Which is why I said it would not dramatically decrease his options. And, it won't.
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Whag happened to the sweet supermodel your aunt is fixing you up with? What happened to your buddy's wife, who gushed about you all night and wants to set you up with her friends?
Look at the difference between the posts that the guys write on this forum versus the ones that the women write.
Short Version: Guys have to catch a woman's attention. Guys have to make the first move. Guys have to gain her trust and approval. The woman makes the final decision.
A woman basically just has to sit back and wait for the offers to come in. Guys have to get out there and make s--t happen. There are some guys who are attractive enough to regularly have women come over and start hitting on them, but those are usually guys who are in the Top 5% range of attractiveness and a really good looking guy has the pulling power of a decent looking woman.
And also dating. A woman's biggest hurdle is finding a guy she likes and by "like" I mean that she finds attractive, likes his personality, ideally has a good job, performs well in bed (once it gets that far), doesn't have any habits she finds objectionable, and so on.
A guy's hurdle is finding a woman who will put up with him.
Now, the problem isn't merely being attractive enough or being engaging enough. Most guys are ugly. Hardly GQ material, but decent looking enough. Most guys aren't also socially retarded, but we have to put up with a lot before we pull off a successful one-night stand, fling, or relationship.
It's a lot like working in sales to be honest. For every sale you get, you have to put up with a lot of people who are "just browsing", who string you along, and people who are just rude before you actually make that sale. Put even making the sale itself is not easy. You often have to jump hoops and try your damnest to close the deal. Only instead of a boss pressuring you to make your target; you have your own biological instincts, ego, friends, family, and society pushing you.
It's not easy. It's not always hard, but it can get frustrating and tiring.
Now, look at the women who ask for advice about relationships. One question I have seen on this board a couple of times and have heard a few times from my female friends is, "How do you ask a guy out?" We are not talking about 14 year old girls here, but adult women in their 20s and 30s. That is the difference. The first thing we learn is how to ask the opposite sex out. Women are so used to guys making the first move that the idea that they might have to do it themselves to get a guy they like is completely alien to them.
Another one is rejection. With the exception of getting dumped; women rarely deal with rejection. Guys get rejected more than they succeed. Even really good looking guys with a reputation for sleeping around still get rejected quite a bit. In fact, they mostly develop that reputation because they never let it get to them. When women put themselves out there and get rejected; they either are crush or get VERY angry. For instance, a while back I had a girl who asked me out, but did so in a very clumsy way and to be honest I didn't even realize it. Since it is my natural instinct to decline anything I don't fully understand; I said no. She responded by going from sweet to venomous and said, "You think you're better than me?! I should've known you were a f---t." and stormed off.
Picture the sexes reversed for a second to get an idea of how f--ked up that reaction was.
Also, we often don't know what to do. Everyone is different. Not only different, but vastly different. Every single woman has different standards and they vary drastically. What one woman find funny another finds deeply offensive. What is a subtle hint for one woman means absolutely nothing to another. Some women want you to chase them and others want you to "get the hint". What one woman finds sweet another might find pathetic. What might be crude to one woman is refreshingly forward to another. One woman might like a guy approaching her at Starbucks and another would think, "I'm just here for coffee, creep."
The first reaction might be, "Duh. Women are individuals and thus are not all the same person. Did you just figure this out, Frank?" Of course not. But it does explain why guys are so inconsistent and why so many of us are nervous asking a woman out (even if we don't show it). Also, what might lead to a successful date or whatever with one woman might make you look like the biggest loser or sleazebag to another.
And to explain what it is like to be a guy on the dating scene (and many other aspects) here is a woman who took on the persona of man. So it is a perspective on being a man from a woman:
Disclaimer: These are just some of my observations and opinions regarding sex, dating, and relationships in general from a male point of view. It is not intended to be critical towards women in general nor even most of the women I seem to criticize in this post (except that one who threw a temper tantrum and called me a "f----t"; she was a psycho b---h). My point is that one sex does most of the pursuing. There is also nothing wrong with having standards.
Nor does it directly relate to any of my personal failings with women. I have more of a mixed record to be honest and on this forum I focus on the failures because I'd rather gain some perspective on what is broken rather than what isn't. I can't remember who said it, but it is our flaws are what make us more interesting than our strengths.
One of the best posts I've read since coming to C-D. Spot on Frank.
Could it be because guys date because the simple possibility of getting laid is enough reason to date? If they are somewhat limited in choices, any girl is better than no girl, as long as there is a chance she'll sleep with him. So guys are less picky and less willing to stay single longer.
Women are not as desperate to get laid, at least not with just anyone. Often we think it's worth to wait and find the best possible candidate rather than just jump with whoever asks us out first, because sex is not our number one goal, at least not if it comes at the price of being with a guy who is not very interesting, not well mannered, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brantleygilbert
I've gotten to know everybody at my job pretty well and I observe everyone pretty closely. It's unbelievable how easy dating is for the women at my job, not one of them particularly decent looking
There is one girl, a blonde who is probably 40 lbs overweight with just horrible looking acne. She is a nice person so I can't say anything bad about her character but her intelligence is highly questionable, makes no money because she has no idea what she's doing. She has a tall good looking white boy friend - she was being pursued hard by another decent looking tall white guy with a pretty good job. Another one of my co workers is a very average looking single mom, chain smoker, very annoying voice, very average figure. She's playing 4-5 dudes at a time, getting dates constantly and being asked out constantly. I think she's sleeping with 3 different guys right now. It just blows my mind
The male equivalent of this just doesn't exist. There are no big guys with horrible acne dating good looking tall white women. Has it always been like this? It seems like dating is getting more and more lopsided - male 9s have to settle for female 6s, female 3's think they should be getting male 8s. Why is this?
I can kill myself to have a nice looking physique, a perfect complexion, a legit college degree, a 180K a year job, the latest in fashionable outfits, etc... etc... etc... and not have 1/10th the dating options as a girl who is like a 3/10 with zero accomplishments whatsoever.
Also, OP, you talk a lot about your pluses and things that make you a good candidate. But like anyone else, you must have weaknesses and imperfections, too. If you are aware of them, dare to share? It might be that one of them is a huge turn off for the women you are going for. At least if you/we know what it is, it's easier to fix it...and therefore increase your chances.
I've gotten to know everybody at my job pretty well and I observe everyone pretty closely. It's unbelievable how easy dating is for the women at my job, not one of them particularly decent looking
There is one girl, a blonde who is probably 40 lbs overweight with just horrible looking acne. She is a nice person so I can't say anything bad about her character but her intelligence is highly questionable, makes no money because she has no idea what she's doing. She has a tall good looking white boy friend - she was being pursued hard by another decent looking tall white guy with a pretty good job. Another one of my co workers is a very average looking single mom, chain smoker, very annoying voice, very average figure. She's playing 4-5 dudes at a time, getting dates constantly and being asked out constantly. I think she's sleeping with 3 different guys right now. It just blows my mind
The male equivalent of this just doesn't exist. There are no big guys with horrible acne dating good looking tall white women. Has it always been like this? It seems like dating is getting more and more lopsided - male 9s have to settle for female 6s, female 3's think they should be getting male 8s. Why is this?
I can kill myself to have a nice looking physique, a perfect complexion, a legit college degree, a 180K a year job, the latest in fashionable outfits, etc... etc... etc... and not have 1/10th the dating options as a girl who is like a 3/10 with zero accomplishments whatsoever.
women control the sex. It's that simple. They have their choice of men. Think about it. If you eliminate sex from the equation, there would be no need to chase women.
Whag happened to the sweet supermodel your aunt is fixing you up with? What happened to your buddy's wife, who gushed about you all night and wants to set you up with her friends?
The girl my aunt wanted to fix me up with lives in Spain, that process will be incredibly hard and still very little reassurance that she will like me
All my friends' girlfriends and wives absolute adore me and say they'll try to set me up with their friends. I'll believe it when I see if
The girl my aunt wanted to fix me up with lives in Spain, that process will be incredibly hard and still very little reassurance that she will like me
All my friends' girlfriends and wives absolute adore me and say they'll try to set me up with their friends. I'll believe it when I see if
LOL no way you work in sales. The wives are just saying that to be nice and to get you to leave them alone. It's like when you don't want to buy girl scout cookies and tell them you don't have any money.
If a woman wants to set you up, she'll set you up. If a woman thinks you are a weird creep, then you'll get the old "I don't have any single friends" line.
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