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I agree with everything you stated, but I'm curious about the part in bold. In what way are you speaking?
"Anti-father" was probably too strong a term. Perhaps I meant neglectful-of-father. All aspects of child-rearing from conception through childhood are women-centric. I understand why, however fathers that want to be involved in all stages are often treated as novelties. I've experienced it myself. I accompanied my wife to a prepregnancy checkup a little while ago and we loved the OBGYN, but the nurse we met was completely dismissive of me being there. Sort of a "aww, isn't that cute he thinks he's important" type of deal.
I know this is anecdotal but the experience is not unique. I'm reading a book called The Expectant Father and the introduction to the book echoed my exact sentiments. In fact, it was difficult to even find a book about early pregnancy/fatherhood that was truly aimed at men. If you read between the lines of most books, even the ones that are supposedly geared toward men (they're really not, it's a marketing strategy), there's quite a bit of condescension toward the father-to-be.
I suppose us men have done it to themselves. After all, we are making more of an effort to be involved now than any other time in recent history. It's only natural that the cultural shift takes time to manifest.
"Anti-father" was probably too strong a term. Perhaps I meant neglectful-of-father. All aspects of child-rearing from conception through childhood are women-centric. I understand why, however fathers that want to be involved in all stages are often treated as novelties. I've experienced it myself. I accompanied my wife to a prepregnancy checkup a little while ago and we loved the OBGYN, but the nurse we met was completely dismissive of me being there. Sort of a "aww, isn't that cute he thinks he's important" type of deal.
I know this is anecdotal but the experience is not unique. I'm reading a book called The Expectant Father and the introduction to the book echoed my exact sentiments. In fact, it was difficult to even find a book about early pregnancy/fatherhood that was truly aimed at men. If you read between the lines of most books, even the ones that are supposedly geared toward men (they're really not, it's a marketing strategy), there's quite a bit of condescension toward the father-to-be.
I suppose us men have done it to themselves. After all, we are making more of an effort to be involved now than any other time in recent history. It's only natural that the cultural shift takes time to manifest.
I think maybe no one knows how to write that book. Since the beginning women have been nurturers and caretakers of children so of course its pretty straightforward and time tested as to what is to be expected for women in pregnancy and motherhood. Involved parenting for fathers is just now taking root so its unclear just what is to be expected as an expectant father. It was that a fathers only responsibility was protection, both financially and physically, and discipline. Now we are all over the place.
Not sure people have mentioned this or not but the concept of a SAHM often (IMO) ties into socio-economics.
Back in the day it was easier for a family with a factory worker income (my dad) to have a SAHM (my mom) at least until the kids got older like 12.
Today, a single income needs to be higher to support a family which is probably why some\many guys balk at the idea considering it puts huge financial strains on the family.
My (late) wife was a SAHM and it was nice. I didn't have to cook or clean or do much grocery shopping.....I didn't have to pay bills and someone was always around to stay home with a sick kid without taking time off and were able to do those extra things like school field trips etc.
So, to honestly have a conversation about that in a relationship really requires having an honest discussion about finances first and foremost.
So to the OP if you want to be a SAHM I *HIGHLY* recommend you look around for a guy that can both afford and appreciate it but for someone to be against or in favor of it does not make EITHER the bad guy in the discussion.
P.S. I know several SAHD's due to their spouse making a high $$$$. To each their own.
Not sure people have mentioned this or not but the concept of a SAHM often (IMO) ties into socio-economics.
Back in the day it was easier for a family with a factory worker income (my dad) to have a SAHM (my mom) at least until the kids got older like 12.
Today, a single income needs to be higher to support a family which is probably why some\many guys balk at the idea considering it puts huge financial strains on the family.
My (late) wife was a SAHM and it was nice. I didn't have to cook or clean or do much grocery shopping.....I didn't have to pay bills and someone was always around to stay home with a sick kid without taking time off and were able to do those extra things like school field trips etc.
So, to honestly have a conversation about that in a relationship really requires having an honest discussion about finances first and foremost.
So to the OP if you want to be a SAHM I *HIGHLY* recommend you look around for a guy that can both afford and appreciate it but for someone to be against or in favor of it does not make EITHER the bad guy in the discussion.
P.S. I know several SAHD's due to their spouse making a high $$$$. To each their own.
The days of yesteryear are long gone, I remember being a kid and my mom staying home, but that was 40 yrs ago, in these last 40 yrs things have gone down the shytter in terms of the economy and I don't want to turn this thread political, but it really needs to get addressed.
What has happened to the American economy in the last 40 or 50 yrs where you can't make it on one income??? If one spouse makes really good money and depending on what of the country you live in and how much you're willing to sacrifice a single income family can exist, but its getting harder and harder for that anymore.
Overall I think Sanders is a bonehead, but one thing he kept hammering on was the decline of income since the 70's and I've heard that said by many others over the last few yrs...
Why has it gotten to the point where there are so little SAHM's.... There maybe a few reasons, but financial reasons have got to be at or near the top of the list
"Anti-father" was probably too strong a term. Perhaps I meant neglectful-of-father. All aspects of child-rearing from conception through childhood are women-centric. I understand why, however fathers that want to be involved in all stages are often treated as novelties. I've experienced it myself. I accompanied my wife to a prepregnancy checkup a little while ago and we loved the OBGYN, but the nurse we met was completely dismissive of me being there. Sort of a "aww, isn't that cute he thinks he's important" type of deal.
I know this is anecdotal but the experience is not unique. I'm reading a book called The Expectant Father and the introduction to the book echoed my exact sentiments. In fact, it was difficult to even find a book about early pregnancy/fatherhood that was truly aimed at men. If you read between the lines of most books, even the ones that are supposedly geared toward men (they're really not, it's a marketing strategy), there's quite a bit of condescension toward the father-to-be.
I suppose us men have done it to themselves. After all, we are making more of an effort to be involved now than any other time in recent history. It's only natural that the cultural shift takes time to manifest.
This article challenges some of the sentiment directed at fathers. That they're incapable or lacking in the parenting department, etc.
I like this one:
Quote:
1., Caring for the children is our job, not my job.
We both decided to start a family. We decided to do this together. Raising our children is not my job that I'm lucky if he helps me out with. We are their parents. We are both their parents. We both change nappies, read stories, go to the park, give cuddles and get up in the night. He is a father, not my incompetent parental sidekick.
It's true that many aspects of child-rearing are mother-centric, since mothers have long been the primary caregiver, and men were the disciplinarians and providers. Mothers did the bulk of the day-to-day child-wrangling and keeping home. It was like that during my husband's upbringing and most of my peers. The majority of friends I know who have healthy relationships with their parents are closet to their primary caregiver. This isn't news.
But I think a lot of this has to do with cultural customs and gender roles, and trying to challenge and combat them. More and more fathers are assuming more significant roles or taking a more active role in baby/child-rearing. I think the reason most things are woman/mother-centric is because it has largely been women or mothers taking on these roles. I know many mothers, friends, who express their husbands don't contribute, or rarely help out with their baby/children. I know many mothers who are the only ones getting up at night, every 1-3 hours, for feedings, or do the bulk of diaper changes. Heck, I know a woman whose husband has not changed a single diaper through three kids.
I see mothers face exhaustion and sleep deprivation alone for many, many months because their husbands can't/won't be bothered to help or contribute. So, yeah, these books are woman-centric because it is often the woman doing the bulk of these tasks. I've seen women complain about their husband's playing video games all day while the house needs tidying or dishes need to be done or whatever. Taking care of a new infant can be exhausting, mentally, emotionally and physically, that doing other things stretch many mothers thin. A partner who ignores this, isn't sympathetic or understanding, will be seen as not taking it seriously or being checked out. I have not experienced this, but I feel for those who have/do.
Now, there are husbands who contribute and assume a very active role in child-rearing. I have friends whose husbands are very supportive, attentive and contribute a great deal. I'm actually observing this more and more, and it's great to see. My husband and I have talked about parenthood a lot, and what he desires or how he envisions it. While he and his father get along fine, he's not super close to him. His father wasn't always around and wasn't the primary parent. I know he wants to be around and assume a more active role.
I have children with my first husband, who was also a very active parent when he wasn't deployed. He was involved, affectionate, supportive, etc. My current husband and I have an almost 11 month old, and he's absolutely fantastic with her. They have such an amazing bond. Since I planned a homebirth and received very personalized/intimate midwifery care he was always included in the appointments, the ones he was able to attend. He had a role in the birth plan, one he took on with great enthusiasm. Heck, if it wasn't for him she may have been born in the car. He was an amazing support throughout my pregnancy. The only thing he doesn't do is breastfeed, but everything else is shared. He's done feedings, slept with her, wears her (baby-wearing -- far more often than I do... it is their "thing"), changes diapers, engages with her, etc. Any minute now he'll be home and the two will go for a walk.
Why has it gotten to the point where there are so little SAHM's.... There maybe a few reasons, but financial reasons have got to be at or near the top of the list
I wonder how much of that is self created? People didn't expect to have TVs in every room, two cars, smart phones for each person, etc. in the old days. DH and I were discussing that "poor" now is not the "poor" or 60 years ago. Now cable is considered a basic right and then there were soup lines.
I know I'm simplifying, but I think there is a lot of truth in that.
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I wonder how much of that is self created? People didn't expect to have TVs in every room, two cars, smart phones for each person, etc. in the old days. DH and I were discussing that "poor" now is not the "poor" or 60 years ago. Now cable is considered a basic right and then there were soup lines.
I know I'm simplifying, but I think there is a lot of truth in that.
Yep lifestyle inflation is a real thing and a major reason it's so hard to get by now on a single salary. Couple that with the lack of wage growth relative to inflation, and suddenly Americans need twice the income to feel comfortable.
I should also mention that inflation is not a very good measure of living costs, and there are a ton that have drastically outpaced inflation.
Well, sure it happens. Lazy people at work (including men) who bring a lousy attitude every day, gossip, complain, eat potato chips and get fat, and do as little work as possible also ABSOLUTELY happens.
It was said that "no SAHM does that". I chimed in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl
But I would be lying if I said that what some people said to me never stung. I don't expect people who don't have kids to understand this, particularly men, but the fact is that, emotionally, and to a certain extent, culturally, motherhood is the great equalizer among women. In other words, once a woman becomes a mother, it matters not how well educated she is, what her socioeconomic background is, how strong and independently-minded she is, how determined and focused, or how caring: how she views herself as a mother matters most of all. This is the common denominator of all mothers.
Now, granted, perhaps some women manage to keep mothering insecurities at bay better than others. But women put so much pressure on themselves - and each other - as mothers, that to feel that one is depriving her children, in any way, of the "best" mother, can make even the most confident of women feel "less than."
If follows, then, that the most effective way to insult a woman or to make her feel bad about herself - IF she's a mother - is to criticize her "proper" nurturing abilities and level of commitment to that "natural" feminine role. And, I might add, it's usually other women who eagerly participate in this mother-shaming. They'll go for the jugular. It's very common. Heck, go into the Parenting sub-forum, and you'll quickly see that mother-shaming is rife there. It sickens me. That's why I rarely go into the Parenting threads.
Of course, and there's male equivalents of this as well. But it's "easier" (in quotes, because none of it is actually easy) to learn to deal with it than to try and change the world.
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