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I wonder how much of that is self created? People didn't expect to have TVs in every room, two cars, smart phones for each person, etc. in the old days. DH and I were discussing that "poor" now is not the "poor" or 60 years ago. Now cable is considered a basic right and then there were soup lines.
I know I'm simplifying, but I think there is a lot of truth in that.
There is certainly truths in that and you're argument is the pretty much most logic counterpart to mine, and yes, I do see a lot of white trash hauling out 42 inchers out of wallmart and yes our poor in some respects is much better off.
Sorry to offend with white trash, but I couldn't think of anything else to convey what exactly I'm talking about...
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Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete
I can't speak for the rest of the country, but my neck of the woods has always necessitated 2 incomes, but it is how that second income is generated that has changed. It used to be that Dad would work 2 jobs while Mom was the constant figure in the home. Nothing wrong with that, as it does provide order and consistency. But, today the dynamic is different because dads (at least in my area) tend to be a lot more hands-on and split kid-duty.
I know with the Mr. and I, our own baggage played a big part in our decision for both of us to split parenting and wage-earning (although it's not always an equal division, because that's not always feasible): he grew up with his dad working very long hours, while his mother was home full time... but she had a Joan Crawford streak to her. He always resented not having much of a relationship with his father, even though he understood that the family needed to be supported. That was something that we understood from the beginning: he would not sacrifice being an active, involved father in order to earn a second income. However, since we live in a HCOL area where even the basic essentials requires 2 incomes (moving is not a viable option), then it is my responsibility to generate that second income. Which I want to do because I believe the kids need their father's presence every bit as much as they need mine. And that's where my baggage comes in from my mother leaving when I was 7: I don't believe in being my kids' entire world, because I know how traumatic is it to lose one's primary caregiver and be left with a parent who was nothing more than a paycheck with pants.
NYC area right along with So Cal are probably the two most expensives places to live, I think San Fran is more, but whatever I get your point..... the basics now adays are getting more and more expensive is my point and like Mikala said, you do wonder if more and more people bring on too many toys.
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Originally Posted by Meyerland
When women were SAHM in the past, families had smaller homes and one car. People lived with less and ate at home. Groceries were cheaper and people ate less food. We didn't have expensive electronics, cell phone bills, credit card debt...etc... Hardly anyone flew anywhere and any vacation you took probably had camping or a motel involved.
I think more people could have one parent stay home if they made lifestyle choices like the seventies. Cut out the gym memberships, have one car that's paid for, no eating out, no cell phones or cheap prepaid ones, no cable, etc.... Kids didn't have expensive lessons. They just played outside.
I doubt many people would choose that.
I'm over 40 and I didn't get a IPhone until I was 37. We waited until we could afford it. I cook almost all of our meals. We make sacrifices so we can have one parent stay home. It's not doable for some people, but for some it is possible.
I agree with your post, and I think that a lot of people "finance" their lifetsyles with credit cards, trying to keep up with the joneses....
I know we live pretty basic don't have much debt at all, but I made/make pretty good money and we didn't have kids, and I've had company paid vehicles so that allowed us to keep our paid off cars for a long time. We also didn't run out and grab the latest and greatest gadgets as they came out.
But to MsMatheletes point, it is getting harder to make it one income and it takes a lot of sacrifice if you even can.
I had a coworker, he made low 6 figures and his wife didn't work, they have 2 kids but he's bringing his lunch to work and drives a an older boring car.... it can be done in some cases but a lot of people don't want to make the sacrifices necessary.
I'm vacillating on this subject I know, but... there are a lot of moving parts and not any one situation can apply to everyone.
The bottom line is is that American paycheck is getting smaller via inflation and there are stats out there that do prove that, but I'm too lazy to dig them up... I think people here have already done that for me in the past..
If you're not a mom yet and your goal is to be a SAHM (I've encountered a couple of girls who INSISTED they'd be SAHMs and said they wouldn't be with a man who wouldn't go along with it), then you are worthless trash and deserve no respect from anyone.
This question has been posted before in other forms, and my answer has always stayed the same.
If you're a good SAHP, then it's a real job, one involving finance, planning and time management, resource awareness and management, and so on.
In my own experience while there are occasional hiccups and/or disasters with which one must cope, it's about achieving a satisfactory level and then maintaining. And you may not like everything you do, but such is life.
The list could go into much greater detail, but the FACT is that any SAHM or SAHD who does this stuff has a real job, not just a pretend job while the other person goes out to do real work. If one person is the "breadwinner" the other is surely the one responsible for making sure not only is the bread sliced, but apportioned in the best possible way. I'd give my eye teeth and my right hand and my left testicle for a great PARTNER, SAHM or not.
That being said, there's also not a SAHM or SAHD alive who isn't convinced they're doing the best possible job and are a shining example, even if they're barely keeping their nose above water.
I once corrected my son's teacher on an academic matter. It wasn't public, it was between us, but her response: "I am a teacher!" Thus, it would appear, NOT to be questioned or countered. Sadly, just being a teacher in the technical sense doesn't mean you're a good one.
Same for being a SAHP. If you work it, it's a job. If not, it's just another vehicle for self-aggrandizement and/or delusion, a reason to high-five yourself when folks post congratulatory memes on FarceBook.
NYC area right along with So Cal are probably the two most expensives places to live, I think San Fran is more, but whatever I get your point..... the basics now adays are getting more and more expensive is my point and like Mikala said, you do wonder if more and more people bring on too many toys.
Generally yes, but we also have priorities that previous generations didn't have, like long-term care for aging parents, a well-funded retirement and college savings for the kids. We can't buy back time, and I don't want money to be the reason they don't go to college... which will inevitably be even more expensive than it is now. The Mr. and I were fortunate to both get grants and academic scholarships that payed for most of our respective education, but that's more the exception than the rule. Yeah, on two incomes we could have lots of shiny new toys, a vacation every year, and maybe a bigger apartment, but we're not frivolous now because we want to be prepared for the BIG expenses that haven't happened yet.
Last edited by Ginge McFantaPants; 10-15-2015 at 03:31 PM..
If you're not a mom yet and your goal is to be a SAHM (I've encountered a couple of girls who INSISTED they'd be SAHMs and said they wouldn't be with a man who wouldn't go along with it), then you are worthless trash and deserve no respect from anyone.
That doesn't make any sense… If you can afford to do - then do it. But if you want to do it - you are worthless trash?
I know some women that wanted to have children and wanted to stay at home with them - before they even met their husbands. I don't see what is so wrong with that. Some people really want to be at home for their children because they believe it's best for the children. Personally, I didn't know how I'd feel but my husband and I always wanted it to be an option.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76
That doesn't make any sense… If you can afford to do - then do it. But if you want to do it - you are worthless trash?
I know some women that wanted to have children and wanted to stay at home with them - before they even met their husbands. I don't see what is so wrong with that. Some people really want to be at home for their children because they believe it's best for the children. Personally, I didn't know how I'd feel but my husband and I always wanted it to be an option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKtoWAtoUT View Post
If you can afford to be a SAHM, then do it.
If you're not a mom yet and your goal is to be a SAHM (I've encountered a couple of girls who INSISTED they'd be SAHMs and said they wouldn't be with a man who wouldn't go along with it), then you are worthless trash and deserve no respect from anyone.
I think what he is getting at is if all you desire to do is have kids and stay home with them with no career aspirations or no intention of spending at least a few years in the workforce beforehand, that is a problem.
Well, those poor guys are in for a rude awakening when their alpha neurotic career woman lawyer or doctor adds to the already lofty stats and drops out of the workforce to be a SAHM and probably never goes back to the career she leaves behind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfredB1979
Your arrangement doesn't usually happen, though. Once all the day care type expenses are added up, well, I doubt most moms want to work for what literally turns out to be slave wages to pay for day care and buy meals on the run every day.
Many kiddos end up at home with their siblings waiting for a parent to come home with a key that gets them in the door keeping them company. Grandma and Grandpa work, you know, and possibly in a town quite distant.
I'm confused. Where, exactly, DO you fall on the spectrum between highly respecting, or highly disrespecting, SAHMs? You don't seem to have a high regard for either SAHMs OR working mothers.
I think what he is getting at is if all you desire to do is have kids and stay home with them with no career aspirations or no intention of spending at least a few years in the workforce beforehand, that is a problem.
Why is it a problem? Some people really want to be a mother. I don't see how that makes a person worthless trash deserving of no respect? Unless you find mothers to be worthless trash deserving of no respect.
Why is it a problem? Some people really want to be a mother. I don't see how that makes a person worthless trash deserving of no respect? Unless you find mothers to be worthless trash deserving of no respect.
I've sat back and thought about this lately and a huge amount of "disagreements" on this forum typical trace back to generational differences...... I've been seeing it more and more and basically things are a "changing" and that is manifesting it's self in the attitudes you see on this forum.
Just generally speaking of course, I want to emphasize that before I get snarky reps.
I'm not even trying to pick on anyone or make morality/value judgements, just sayin....
Edit: Caliing someone trash doesn't fall under what I said, that's just rude.....
I've sat back and thought about this lately and a huge amount of "disagreements" on this forum typical trace back to generational differences...... I've been seeing it more and more and basically things are a "changing" and that is manifesting it's self in the attitudes you see on this forum.
Just generally speaking of course, I want to emphasize that before I get snarky reps.
I'm not even trying to pick on anyone or make morality/value judgements, just sayin....
Edit: Caliing someone trash doesn't fall under what I said, that's just rude.....
One thing about anonymous forums is that the tough guy comes out of some dudes even though in real life they're soft as marshmallows.
But a woman whose life long goal is to be SAHM?.... IDK man.
It's one thing if you decide on such a thing long after you've met someone. At least a woman would know that her man is a decent person who will truly support them in that situation. And perhaps the woman in this situation would have at least an education and work experience beforehand.
But to come out from jump with being SAH wife or mother as a lifetime goal before you've even met a suitable guy is way too risky. She wouldn't have developed any skills of her own and is shoving all of her cards on the table that some guy she has yet to meet is going to take care of her if all she has to do was take care of the house and have his kids.
But what if the guy she does meet is a good financial provider but constantly cheats on her and is abusive to her? What if the guy feels that just because he's making the money he owns and controls her? How can she leave that situation if she has no skills to take care of herself?
The problem with such a goal is that it is not accomplished of the woman's own merit but is dependent on meeting some man to go along with it.
It might sound cynical but it is realistic concern that needs to be given more thought.
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