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I don't need to read the article. Lower class is the lowest 20%. Upper class is the highest 20%. Middle class is the middle three quintiles, 20%-80%. Those percentages remain fixed.
Math is the argument, because what middle class is in economic terms is about numbers. 20% is always 20-80% will ALWAYS be 20-80%.
Yes - well if your lower class makes 30K a year, and your middle class makes 40K a year, and your upper class makes 500K a year - then you don't really have a middle class.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,909,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76
Yes - well if your lower class makes 30K a year, and your middle class makes 40K a year, and your upper class makes 500K a year - then you don't really have a middle class.
Of course you do. But the middle class is a large range, so it would probably be 30k - 450k or something along those lines, in your example.
Yes - well if your lower class makes 30K a year, and your middle class makes 40K a year, and your upper class makes 500K a year - then you don't really have a middle class.
We can play semantics all day... when working class people, aka the middle class, see their incomes shrinking and the rich are getting richer while the poor are staying poor..... I'm not sure how else I can say it.... the middle class is getting smaller... whatever ****ing math we want to apply... I'm not making as much money as I should be since the 70's, it's been declining and that isn't an opinion it's a fact...
Of course you do. But the middle class is a large range, so it would probably be 30k - 450k or something along those lines, in your example.
When the middle class makes about the same as the lower class - then you don't really have a "middle" class. I know you understand what we are saying. You aren't really in a different class if you basically have the same standard of living. If people are either rich or poor - then whatever difference there is between the middle class and lower class is not enough to make a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound
We can play semantics all day... when working class people, aka the middle class, see their incomes shrinking and the rich are getting richer while the poor are staying poor..... I'm not sure how else I can say it.... the middle class is getting smaller... whatever ****ing math we want to apply... I'm not making as much money as I should be since the 70's, it's been declining and that isn't an opinion it's a fact...
You are agreeing with me - right? Because what I said was in agreement with you.
True. I don't happen to know any non dual career couples. Honestly, I don't think many would be living near me. I mean, housing is expensive, so one partner would have to be pulling in 150k+ on their own for the other to no be a careerist. And those people tend to marry peers, for many reasons.
I can't understand lower middle class people having kids honestly, they're so incredibly expensive. But that's me being removed from my Midwest living too long. It was super common there.
I actually think it's a good thing that it is expensive to raise children, because it forces people to really think long and hard about how many children they plan on having, if any. It is a significant financial sacrifice, and not one to be taken lightly when we're talking about investing in the future of our country. As it stands, the only ones who really don't have an incentive to limit the number of children they have... are the ones who are not supporting those children on their own dime.
The middle class is about as a f'd group as they come.... make too much for assistance.... not that we'd want it, but still..... not enough to get ahead......
Exactly. Mathematical percentages aside, the reality of day to day living for a lot of people tells the story.
When I first moved to Seattle about 8 years ago, I remember a co-worker speaking about how expensive child care was. I don't recall the exact figures, but it was high enough that his wife, a nurse, put her career on hold to stay home. It simply did not make sense for her to be working, essentially to be paying for the child care.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,909,578 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdroplet76
When the middle class makes about the same as the lower class - then you don't really have a "middle" class. I know you understand what we are saying. You aren't really in a different class if you basically have the same standard of living. If people are either rich or poor - then whatever difference there is between the middle class and lower class is not enough to make a difference.
There is always a point, be it a single dollar, where it flips from one tier to another. That is inevitable.
The thing with the term "middle class" is that it is useless in most ways, and just used as a tool by politicians and special interests. When a politician talks to the middle class, the person earning 30k things he/she is speaking to me. When the person earning 150k hears it, he/she thinks they are speaking to them. In many cases, they are actually indeed middle class, and in many others, they self perceive and identify as middle class even if they aren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound
We can play semantics all day... when working class people, aka the middle class, see their incomes shrinking and the rich are getting richer while the poor are staying poor..... I'm not sure how else I can say it.... the middle class is getting smaller... whatever ****ing math we want to apply... I'm not making as much money as I should be since the 70's, it's been declining and that isn't an opinion it's a fact...
True, wages have been stagnant in real dollars since the 1970s, while the upper class (especially the upper few percent of the upper class) have skyrocketed. This, in some cases, actually increases the breadth of what middle class is and expands it.
Semantics, aka the definitions of words, are critical. They're not to be taken lightly when trying to communicate, IMO.
I actually think it's a good thing that it is expensive to raise children, because it forces people to really think long and hard about how many children they plan on having, if any. It is a significant financial sacrifice, and not one to be taken lightly when we're talking about investing in the future of our country. As it stands, the only ones who really don't have an incentive to limit the number of children they have... are the ones who are not supporting those children on their own dime.
I wish that was true. I think most people who think about it first are the responsible ones who can afford them.
Look at all the lower class people who have tons of kids. When i watch prison shows it seems like everybody has tons of kids. My neighborhood (lower class) is full of kids (food stamps).
How many families do you see who have lots of kids and can afford them? The Kardashians are an exception.
I wish that was true. I think most people who think about it first are the responsible ones who can afford them.
Look at all the lower class people who have tons of kids. When i watch prison shows it seems like everybody has tons of kids. My neighborhood (lower class) is full of kids (food stamps).
How many families do you see who have lots of kids and can afford them? The Kardashians are an exception.
That's where my final sentence comes into play: when it's not on your dime, it makes no difference if you have 1 child or 10. But when you're responsible for things like how big of a house and car you can afford, extracurriculars, college tuition, etc, there's a significant long-term financial obligation for each child you decide to have.
I wish that was true. I think most people who think about it first are the responsible ones who can afford them.
Look at all the lower class people who have tons of kids. When i watch prison shows it seems like everybody has tons of kids. My neighborhood (lower class) is full of kids (food stamps).
How many families do you see who have lots of kids and can afford them? The Kardashians are an exception.
I was watching Fox News.. I know.. a lot of people hate it, but I watch sometimes and on that show they were talking about all of the entitlement programs for people who make 20k or less, they listed out a bunch of stuff and it came out to 47k....... can't remember for what state they were talking about, but think about how much money that is..... I mean, it's unsustainable, really, in the long run.
If you make 20k a yr, you have no business having kids at all... I know that sounds harsh, but I'm tired of doing all the right stuff, handling my business like you should and paying up the whazoo in taxes.... just because I don't have kids I don't get any breaks... IDK....
I'm not one of these guys that thinks there shouldn't be taxes... I get it, we need to pay for infrastructure and things like that.... but if someone is a HS dropout working at McDonalds and has 3 or 4 kids that's just f ing BS in my opinion, just because they made bad choices we have to pay for it... and again... I get that kids shouldn't be punished, but damn... it's a tough situation to deal with.
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