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Old 11-05-2015, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,192 posts, read 25,071,587 times
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I agree that someone who definitely doesn't want children would not be a good match with someone who definitely wants children. However, this isn't something that you can tell about a person by looking at them. Unless you are doing OLD or something where you know information like this about someone ahead of time - the only way to find out about this is to date them. You seem to be trying to come up with reasons not to date anyone. Stop thinking about all the reasons why you shouldn't date, why you haven't been successful, why things won't work, divorce, etc. Stop being so afraid. Just take it one step at a time. Like others have said, get out of your head and start living your life.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:50 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,728,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter View Post
Yes, I live by a mostly yes or no thought process, but on a big issue like children, that is a very black or white issue and any compromise will likely work to the detriment of one party's wishes. I'm reporting on my interactions with people, more than likely day 70% of the time when I meet a woman for the first time, she will likely be one to mention her relationship goals include having a family at some point and she will not be willing to invest time in someone who DEFINITELY does not want kids. Just my observations from the women I've come across.

Children aren't a black and white issue, when one party says they're not sure, or they're undecided.

And LOADS of people change their mind on the child issue. I was throughout my 20s and most of my 30s very much against the idea of a parent, until I met one particular woman who I would have loved to be a parent with. She wasn't interested, but to pretend these things are black and white and set in stone is incorrect.

You also repeatedly seem to think in many areas that compromise is a bad thing. It isn't. There is a winner/loser vibe you seem to bring to relationship discussions, which is why I've asked about whether you've fallen in love and had relationships. Your perspective just seems really out of place to me.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:56 AM
 
1,881 posts, read 1,475,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dissenter View Post
I got screamed at yesterday for stating I would consider it a major lack of logic for someone who has a stance to get involved with someone who had a staunchly different take of the stance. The stance was having children, not exactly a what's for dinner question that can be negotiated? Sorry, not sorry, I would definitely say getting involved with someone who might want children when you DEFINITELY don't want children shows a lack of critical thinking and logic. People tried to come at me with you'll logic yourself to the singles ward of the nursing home, call me when you selected a partner on logic,etc.

My point is logic should not be cast aside when choosing who to date and more importantly who NOT to date. If you as a childfree person want to get involved with someone who wants kids? Fine, but you have no right to complain when you get dumped or are forced to make a tough decision of whether to have kids to keep them or not when you could have avoided that noise by not getting involved with someone who had a different take than you on such a crucial issue.

Alright CD, commence on telling me I'm nothing because I've never been in a substantial romantic relationship. Ain't nothing I've never heard before.
I think you are wise to avoid dating people who might want kids if you know you don't want them.

But there are two caveats, which I am whispering, not screaming.

First, the younger you are, the tougher it is to find people who have a definite "no" on that. So in that respect, if you're strict about it (won't even date casually), it's just going to be harder to find people to date.

Second, just because someone says they don't want kids, that doesn't mean they are honest with themselves, honest with you, or incapable of changing their minds. See: The reason for my divorce.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,277,853 times
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Logic should never be cast aside in major interpersonal decisions.

But it's also not the only factor in how human beings interact and relate. Emotion and hormonal drives also play roles. Generally, human interaction and behavior overall is shaped by a combination of logic, emotion, and innate drives. The balance of these things will shift depending on the moment and the situation, obviously.

The kids/no kids question is one that people need to weigh carefully...anybody who would argue that that's not the case is a fool.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:08 AM
 
2,013 posts, read 1,600,029 times
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I tried to explain this on that particular post, and you ignored me because you wanted to fight with other people. So I'll try to explain it again:

That OP admitted that it wasn't a very serious relationship and they had only been together a few months. The woman he was dating then made the decision that she did, in fact, want marriage and kids, and moved on accordingly. Even the OP admitted later in the thread that he would be over it in a couple of days, so really the whole purpose of the thread seemed to be so he could feel better about himself by casting the woman who dumped him in a bad light so that the "Bitter Boys of City-Data" (we all know those usual suspects) would pile on and say what a terrible person she was.

Your comment was that they shouldn't have gotten together because one wanted kids and one didn't, which is absolutely a fair point (and FWIW I do not consider you a bitter person). However, this wasn't a super serious relationship. The OP said he never saw it ending in marriage. Plenty of people have relationships that aren't going to go anywhere, and that's ok. Sometimes people just date to have fun. Although honestly, once that relationship in question went the nowhere it was always going to go, the OP shouldn't have been so surprised that he posted a thread about it.

Now for your question about applying logic to your relationships. No one in their right mind will tell you to let logic fly right out the window across the board. Of course, if you are looking for a serious relationship, you should absolutely consider important factors like "does this person want marriage or kids?"

But I think it was Hawaiiancoconut who said, in his ever infinite wisdom (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the heart doesn't really know logic. The heart wants what it wants.

My own personal life has been in a sort of turmoil because of someone who can't throw aside logic. My recent ex doesn't want to get hurt again because he went through a divorce, and so he decided to close himself off to me. That is, of course, his prerogative, but he's also creating a very lonely life for himself by doing this.

It seems to me that you have had some bad stuff happen in your life regarding the relationships around you, and that sucks. I'm sorry that happened to you. But you always seemed to have created a lonely life for yourself by shutting off emotional responses in favor of logic. Ideally, there needs to be a balance of logic and emotion in a relationship. You've seen evidence of too much of the latter on here: women/men who won't leave an obviously rotten situation because they "lurrve" their significant other too much. And I think you've experienced too much of the former: logic dictates not pursuing this person because of X,Y, and Z, so it doesn't matter how they make me feel. Both extremes aren't a good idea in matters of the heart.

Ultimately it's your choice, and you shouldn't let anyone cajole you into doing something you don't want to do, but you're going to miss out on some good experiences if you don't open up your heart a little bit. Yes, there's going to be pain, and there's going to be heartache, but there's also exciting moments of lust and love and fun and excitement.

And yes, I'm sort of being the pot calling the kettle black because I've sworn off relationships (although I did accidentally go on a date yesterday) but just because something isn't easy, or in your case logical, doesn't mean it isn't worth it.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,277,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasperJade View Post

Second, just because someone says they don't want kids, that doesn't mean they are honest with themselves, honest with you, or incapable of changing their minds. See: The reason for my divorce.
Works the other way, too.

I lived for a long time with a guy who claimed to want kids...turned out, not so much. See: One of many reasons for our split.

Years later, I'm still not clear on if he had some sort of crisis of faith/ "change of heart" on the issue, or if he truly never DID see himself having children, but intentionally misrepresented that in order for me to stick around and serve his particular needs. I strongly suspect the latter, but I'll never know for sure. But I do in my heart think his assertion that he wanted kids was truly a manipulation, versus something he legitimately "changed his mind" about further on down the line. I don't think it was ever his intent, but it prevented me from "next"-ing him. In retrospect, his playing fast and loose with honesty seems to support that option.

Ah, well, met a guy who is a better fit in all ways, got married, have a child. All's well that ends well, despite manipulative action.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:18 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,728,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Works the other way, too.

I lived for a long time with a guy who claimed to want kids...turned out, not so much. See: One of many reasons for our split.

Years later, I'm still not clear on if he had some sort of crisis of faith/ "change of heart" on the issue, or if he truly never DID see himself having children, but intentionally misrepresented that in order for me to stick around and serve his particular needs. I strongly suspect the latter, but I'll never know for sure. But I do in my heart think his assertion that he wanted kids was truly a manipulation, versus something he legitimately "changed his mind" about further on down the line. I don't think it was ever his intent, but it prevented me from "next"-ing him. In retrospect, his playing fast and loose with honesty seems to support that option.

Ah, well, met a guy who is a better fit in all ways, got married, have a child. All's well that ends well, despite manipulative action.

I can't speak for others of course, but for me, there are people I've dated where I very much would have loved having kids with. Others I've dated where I wouldn't have children with. It has nothing to do with how much I cared about them, its just that different relationships are different and have different paths.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,277,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissClutterbuck View Post
Ideally, there needs to be a balance of logic and emotion in a relationship.

Yep (and that really applies to ALL human relationships, not just romantic ones). Making a concerted effort to operate based solely on logic to the exclusion of emotion is generally dysfunctional, as is making a concerted effort to operate based solely on emotion to the exclusion of logic. People make better decisions when the head and heart are functioning in an integrated fashion, versus acting separately.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:25 AM
 
1,881 posts, read 1,475,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Remember this quote: "'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." - Alfred Lord

It's 10000000% true.
The first three times.

Then it becomes a PITA.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,277,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
I can't speak for others of course, but for me, there are people I've dated where I very much would have loved having kids with. Others I've dated where I wouldn't have children with. It has nothing to do with how much I cared about them, its just that different relationships are different and have different paths.
Could be, for many.

Was not the case with my ex. He "came out" as an "I don't want kids, I've never wanted kids, an dI don't intend on ever having any," person, five years in. Which was, of course, news to me, as we'd discussed various different options over the years, from having our own, to potentially adopting a child with special needs in the future, and he's always presented himself as enthusiastic...we weren't even at a point where kids were on the imminent horizon, all talks were oriented toward the future, so there wasn't really any pressure in the here and now that freaked him out or anything. AFAIK, he did, in fact, move on to a very deliberately childfree relationship, versus to somebody he "wanted kids with more," or anything like that.

At any rate, people do misrepresent themselves both ways, which is obviously disingenuous and counterproductive to the relationship, and people of either stance do legitimately change their minds on the issue. Both of which create barriers to making a foolproof decision of whether or not to be with somebody based on their stance on this particular issue. Logic should apply, but the reality is, you can't always trust that people's stances are concrete and will never change, and you can't always trust that they're being honest. Sadly.
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