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I'll proceed to "define" the case of "ugly" for this topic as someone who's definitely not a looker (face, primarily). It doesn't involve cases with severe phyisical damages such as burns over the face and hideously horrid (i.e. <2% population), but simply aesthetically sub-par, i.e. someone who's likely to be among the most plain or least attractive people in the room, i.e. 5%-15% attractiveness scale for their age/demographic.
Let's also say that this person not only matches all other expectations that you hold in high regard, but he/she also surpasses them, i.e.:
- very educated, excelling in fact (generally the top achiever in whole university) - given that you value it with high regard
- being very smart and eloquent as well
- extremely kind and pleasant to be around with.
- a virgin at 20+ age - given that you hold it with high regard.
- strict ethical and other behavioral norms
- on top of everything, she's is very family-oriented and looks forward to find someone who is alike (given that you also evaluate that in high regard)
- list goes on..
Let's say that he or she not only matches but CLOCKS any expectation(s) and desires in various deal-breakers that you might have in regards to other things!
Would you date or keep dating him/her? Would you be afraid/vary of others and what they think or talk about it? And if you would, what would be your primary concern - your image, or her (or his) self-esteem and stuff like that?
I'd like to hear opinions of others and it isn't about making it into a poll - just a plain human discussion about people's opinion on the matter. If you had such experiences and/or dilemmas before, please share it and elaborate a bit.
I'd be open to it.
Unfortunately, I could only think of maybe a handful of women that meet the criteria above, ugly or not, and all of them were snapped up quickly.
Women like this pretty much don't exist anymore. Thanks feminism.
I'm make it simple: If I'm not physically attracted... its just not going to happen.
This. I'm not looking for a supermodel type by any means, but she has to possess some physical attraction. I've met 200+lb. women who I wouldn't have minded hooking up with.
From the OP, I must highlight the fact that it was stated, we're NOT talking about a "goblin" or a really freakishly ugly outlier...so, I'm assuming, not 500 lbs, not dirty or smelly, has her teeth, her eyes point in more or less the same direction. Not sideshow territory here. Just...plain. Not someone who is going to get noticed because of looks. Maybe she doesn't go out of her way to dress herself up or make herself up, but maybe she isn't a complete ogre, just a plain Jane. That, I would say, is in the very large middle ground territory of "average."
As others, like Georgianbelle, Urban Sasquatch, and timberline, have eloquently pointed out, such a person can easily become more beautiful in the eye of the beholder if they are beautiful on the inside. You can fall in love with someone based on multiple levels and layers of compatibility, and they can easily become the sexiest creature on earth in your eyes. Obviously this happens, because I see couples all the time where one or both of the people are average or below average, but clearly they love each other. You do NOT have to be a stunner to find love.
Personally, my criteria in the looks department are fairly broad, and there are lots and lots of things that matter more to me. I love getting attached to someone who isn't obviously attractive, and instead of worrying about what others will think of my choice, I feel privileged to see what others cannot. Like I'm in on a magical secret. Often these people don't even see in themselves the amazing things I see in them, and sometimes I get to be the one to help show them a whole other self, or have the courage to be their best self more obviously instead of hiding under all of the defenses they've built up. I've helped people develop confidence just by loving the inner self they have shown to me. That whole thing...it's just wonderful.
Personally, and I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but when someone says that their partner must be initially attractive or that looks are the most important to them, I feel like...I dunno, the way the wizards in Harry Potter might feel about the "muggles." I feel like those folks aren't really that bright, or that experienced, or that they are just a bit dull. Like there is a whole other world they aren't able to see.
Someone like me, I can look at an old person, that most wouldn't consider "attractive"...no matter if they once were or not...and think of all the stories they must have and see their smiling eyes, if they are good inside, and it shows, then they ARE more beautiful to me than a polished, "perfect" Barbie doll of a celebrity or model. So when those who are superficial get old, and the women they find "attractive" now get old, as we all do one day, for those "muggles", the beauty will be gone. For me, it will have ripened and become rich with the golds and reds of autumn, it will only be better, because my eyes see past the surface.
I posted this story once, long ago, but it's buried in the CD annals (that's ANNALS, two N's) so I'll recount it here.
When I was in fifth grade there was a girl in my class who was ugly. I don't just mean in that less-than-pretty, judgmental way children have in their repertoire of brutal honesty, I mean she was ugly. And she had an absolutely vicious attitude as well.
We were in the advanced programs, or what passed for them back in those days, and on one occasion were given an assignment requiring partners. I was assigned this girl. We'll call her Kesha.
For the first couple of days my time with Kesha was brutal. I was smart, but a generally poor student, and she was just plain mean. However, as our interest in the project itself grew and our focus sharpened, I became more direct. She calmed down some and her qualities began to surface.
It turned out that despite being one of the "dumb" kids in class (none of us were, but there's always a pecking order) she was quite intelligent. Moreover, as she got used to me, her attitude shifted and a sweetness surfaced. It was my first encounter with an overt defense mechanism and I began to understand that she was mean because she had learned the world would be mean to her based on her appearance.
I was so taken aback by her change, and moreover I gradually ceased to see her looks the way I had initially. It's easy to suggest that one grows accustomed (and it's true as well) but there was more to it. I got to know her in a way I think few had up to that point. I went from viewing our time together as a necessity, to looking genuinely forward to it.
We laughed, we joked, we became friends. Every day she changed in my eyes. It wasn't merely that she was less ugly, but that an actual beauty began to shine through. Although I had never been one of her tormentors in the social mainstream of our elementary world, I hadn't been her friend either; but now I was. Now I really was; and I developed quite a powerful crush on her. Her jokes were the best, her laughter was infectious and charming, and her wit was like a razor, a thing which had always drawn me because I'm the sort who appreciates a good jab, even if it's at my expense.
I went from someone who didn't know her but viewed her as "ugly" to someone who was ready to throw down should anyone dare malign her on any level.
I won't pretend Life is a fairy tale; but sometimes fairy tales do happen, if you're the sort who can detect magic. So yes, for all that it isn't LIKELY in this world, it can happen.
It didn't happen for me, of course. I confessed my feelings for Kesha and she laughed at the "stoopit li'l ol' white boy" as well as letting me know I was absolutely not her type and then cutting me pretty much loose.
Sometimes, alas, the frog does not get kissed but that, too, is Life. Nevertheless, I learned a few valuable lessons from the experience. One of them was the lesson of what does and does not constitute ugliness. It's a lesson I cherish to this day.
And for the record, it goes the other way, too.
This is an excellent story. "Looks" are far over rated and I know lots of people who miss out on so much love because they were obsessed with that (and even more so, what people would think of them for being with someone who didn't measure up to some sort of expectations).
I'll proceed to "define" the case of "ugly" for this topic as someone who's definitely not a looker (face, primarily). It doesn't involve cases with severe phyisical damages such as burns over the face and hideously horrid (i.e. <2% population), but simply aesthetically sub-par, i.e. someone who's likely to be among the most plain or least attractive people in the room, i.e. 5%-15% attractiveness scale for their age/demographic.
Let's also say that this person not only matches all other expectations that you hold in high regard, but he/she also surpasses them, i.e.:
- very educated, excelling in fact (generally the top achiever in whole university) - given that you value it with high regard
- being very smart and eloquent as well
- extremely kind and pleasant to be around with.
- a virgin at 20+ age - given that you hold it with high regard.
- strict ethical and other behavioral norms
- on top of everything, she's is very family-oriented and looks forward to find someone who is alike (given that you also evaluate that in high regard)
- list goes on..
elaborate a bit.
I have never met a super ugly troll-like person who was any or all of the things on this list.
You want super ugly? Meet some meth heads and crack wh***s. You have not seen ugly until you have seen these toothless, clump-haired crypt-keeper types.
They don't tend to be ethical, successful, or family oriented.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighFlyingBird
This is an excellent story. "Looks" are far over rated and I know lots of people who miss out on so much love because they were obsessed with that (and even more so, what people would think of them for being with someone who didn't measure up to some sort of expectations).
All I'm saying is what good is love if the thought of making love to them makes you wanna vomit?
If this person has all this going for them it would be a shame for this person to be alone for a lifetime due to people finding them very unattractive. Seemingly some gentleman could live an almost perfect life with this lady. The world bases it all on attractiveness and beauty and that doesn't make for a wonderful life in the end and many relationships and marriages have gone by the wayside anyway. A very mature person with a big heart looks past all that.
We hung out as friends for a while (in a group of people) and I slowly became attracted to his personality. I fell in love. People told me I could do better look wise. We married. After we married, he turned into the person he really is. Slowly, over the years, I lost the love and he became unattractive to me again to the point where I could hardly look at him anymore and wonder what I ever saw in him. I have to add that his face changed a lot since we met - and not to the better because he eats fast food only.
Someone like me, I can look at an old person, that most wouldn't consider "attractive"...no matter if they once were or not...and think of all the stories they must have and see their smiling eyes, if they are good inside, and it shows, then they ARE more beautiful to me than a polished, "perfect" Barbie doll of a celebrity or model. So when those who are superficial get old, and the women they find "attractive" now get old, as we all do one day, for those "muggles", the beauty will be gone. For me, it will have ripened and become rich with the golds and reds of autumn, it will only be better, because my eyes see past the surface.
What an absolutely lovely paragraph! Wouldn't it be great if more people were like you and looked beyond the cover to the story inside? Thank you.
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