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Women may not make the "obvious" first move but as someone else said, they as a guy don't make a move "cold".
Hopefully the woman has given some hint in terms of a glance or a flirting gesture or question that lets you know there's some chance at least of success. So yeah, women don't get CREDIT for the first move but sometimes it's there if you pay attention.
I think women consider making inviting eye contact having made the first move, and that they made it.
Women making the first doesn't feel right to me. In fact, it's emasculating. I've been approached by women who said men take too long asking women out. However men should ask women out and women should be courted. I don't find aggressive women attractive.
Let's backtrack for a moment. Haven't pretty much all the women you dated been the aggressors?
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percentage
Hes not serious or has never been approached by a woman. Sort of like me saying I'm not that crazy about Lamborghinis but if one suddenly becomes available to me, at a price I can afford, I'd love Lambors.
The one thing I will say though, is that in most cases, women handle rejections far worse than men. If you turn them down, questions about your sexuality suddenly become part of the conversation lmao.
Your Lamborghini analogy is foolish. I would never own a Lamborghini, BMW, or Mercedes, even for free because I just don't like those cars or most of the people who drive them. I've had girls approach me but have declined to date them because one thing or another turned me off them. It is like a buffet, you ain't supposed to eat every course that is offered to you.
So just a really quick and very general observation. Is the onus almost 99.9999% of the time on the guy to make the first move- whether it is to engage in conversation, ask for a date/number or to explicitly express interest in the girl? For example, Lately I've been noticing that sometimes girls will put themselves in position to catch my attention- whether it is eye contact and a smile or they will sit next to me when there are other spaces available, etc. Anything and everything short of actually opening their mouth and speaking first. And if I don't make a move or start a conversation nothing happens (and in fact sometimes I get a bit of a glare or pained expression as if they expected something). Am I imagining things and over-estimating female intentions or can everyone else validate this social fact?
Assume you must make the first move if you want results.
There will be exceptions of course and it isn't right but that is the way it is.
I assume a guy doesn't have interest in me if he isn't making any attempts. Years of observation says this is true. A guy might be an exception where this is true but I've been conditioned to this reality so I don't think otherwise.
So just a really quick and very general observation. Is the onus almost 99.9999% of the time on the guy to make the first move- whether it is to engage in conversation, ask for a date/number or to explicitly express interest in the girl? For example, Lately I've been noticing that sometimes girls will put themselves in position to catch my attention- whether it is eye contact and a smile or they will sit next to me when there are other spaces available, etc. Anything and everything short of actually opening their mouth and speaking first. And if I don't make a move or start a conversation nothing happens (and in fact sometimes I get a bit of a glare or pained expression as if they expected something). Am I imagining things and over-estimating female intentions or can everyone else validate this social fact?
Pretty much men and women play traditional roles in the "mating dance." What you describe with catching eye contact, smiling, putting themselves in a position to catch your attention is the traditional female role in the dance. The traditional male role is to approach.
If you want a woman to play the part of a man in the dance, she can (and will. I've seen women do it), but then you need to play the traditional woman's part and make eye contact, smile, put yourself in a position to be approached.
If you aren't going to lead in the dance, then you need to follow. Too many guys whine women never approach but they don't make themselves approachable in the first place.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMBGBlueCanary
Pretty much men and women play traditional roles in the "mating dance." What you describe with catching eye contact, smiling, putting themselves in a position to catch your attention is the traditional female role in the dance. The traditional male role is to approach.
If you want a woman to play the part of a man in the dance, she can (and will. I've seen women do it), but then you need to play the traditional woman's part and make eye contact, smile, put yourself in a position to be approached.
If you aren't going to lead in the dance, then you need to follow. Too many guys whine women never approach but they don't make themselves approachable in the first place.
Spot on. But to take it a step further, women do make the first, and second moves as we as guys are clueless to them at times. The last person I dated seriously did so, but I thought I was kind of studly and picked her up, months later when we recounted the first meeting and she laid out what she did to be invited over it made my head spin, I was so clueless. She effectively invited herself over.
The one I'm most interested in now said "so when are we going out for drinks?", it can't get much more forward than that.
Women making the first doesn't feel right to me. In fact, it's emasculating. I've been approached by women who said men take too long asking women out. However men should ask women out and women should be courted. I don't find aggressive women attractive.
Do you make a distinction between aggressiveness and assertiveness?
Pretty much men and women play traditional roles in the "mating dance." What you describe with catching eye contact, smiling, putting themselves in a position to catch your attention is the traditional female role in the dance. The traditional male role is to approach.
If you want a woman to play the part of a man in the dance, she can (and will. I've seen women do it), but then you need to play the traditional woman's part and make eye contact, smile, put yourself in a position to be approached.
If you aren't going to lead in the dance, then you need to follow. Too many guys whine women never approach but they don't make themselves approachable in the first place.
Better yet, be prepared to go either way instantly as the situation dictates. When you make eye contact, smile, et cetera, if she/he doesn't then make the next move in a few moments, then you do it.
Spot on. But to take it a step further, women do make the first, and second moves as we as guys are clueless to them at times. The last person I dated seriously did so, but I thought I was kind of studly and picked her up, months later when we recounted the first meeting and she laid out what she did to be invited over it made my head spin, I was so clueless. She effectively invited herself over.
The one I'm most interested in now said "so when are we going out for drinks?", it can't get much more forward than that.
This is true too.
I also think it also, to a degree, depends on the type of relationship you are interested in. If I recall, you are a more nontraditional and liberal guy who likes modern relationships. I am more traditional and conservative, and I like the "old fashion" relationships.
I think the woman approaching more tends to happen more when the woman is more liberal and modern... and the man is looking for a more "modern" relationship. And I think the women tend to flirt and let a man approach when they are more conservative and the man is looking for an "old fashion" kind of relationship.
Just in general I mean. Of course, there are always exceptions--especially if a traditional woman likes you and knows you well enough.
I guess my point is, if you are a traditional kind of guy, sitting around and waiting for a traditional type of woman to cold approach you is kind of like fishing in a backyard pool. You aren't going to catch any woman's attention. You have to be a more modern and liberal kind of man to make successful relationships out of letting women cold approach. Don't be one of those cake and eat it too guys who expects a woman to be liberal enough to approach you but suddenly change and be traditional and conservative when things get serious. You'll only end up frustrating yourself.
Assume you must make the first move if you want results.
There will be exceptions of course and it isn't right but that is the way it is.
I assume a guy doesn't have interest in me if he isn't making any attempts. Years of observation says this is true. A guy might be an exception where this is true but I've been conditioned to this reality so I don't think otherwise.
Good points. If you're interested, you have to make it known. It's unreasonable to expect that you have interest in someone but don't need to make an effort.
More women are approaching, but it's not going to benefit the guy who doesn't want to approach as long as other men continue to make that effort. There is never going to come a time where no man makes an effort to meet a woman. When you don't want to approach, and think it's unfair, there are plenty of other guys willing to do what you won't.
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