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Well, the desire to cool down when the moment is not heated doesn't really occur that often. However, I think rational disagreements happen when I'm not the subject matter. We can disagree on several things and that's fine. When I'm the subject matter, it gets heated because I feel things get a little one-sided, overblown, and I'm getting coerced into submission on something that didn't even happen.
Example:
Watching the baby and I think she's getting cranky because she's sleepy. Wife thinks otherwise. I put baby down in crib, baby whines a bit, (she gets a notification on the monitor app) and she continues to tell me the baby isn't sleepy. She does this in an "don't you think you should" sort of suggesting but really implying I do it because she won't stop suggesting if I don't.
--I get slightly irritated, but not mad
If I don't do what she says, the suggestions don't stop. By the time we finish this discussion on the phone, the baby is asleep. The one time she backed off is because she couldn't argue the results. Other than that, she would have continued to suggest and then say I'm not listening (even though it was an ask/suggestion and not a command) and then say that she knows best because she's mom.
--angry
Then I say, "time out, we're not getting anywhere, you do this very often and I'm her dad and I think I know how to take care of her too" ---walk away.
Now if the baby hadn't gone to sleep, there'd be hell for me to pay.
If you replace the above scenario with several others, I'm being forced to comply or there's a steady stream of disagreement until I obey. Is that honestly what I'm supposed to do? Just obey until there's no fight? At that point I'm just a robot.
See this is exactly why avoiding conflict and not speaking up is a hindrance in relationships. Her behavior toward you is very passive aggressive the same way your taking a time out and walking away is a passive aggressive response. Bottom line is neither of you know how to effectively communicate with each other and until you figure that out, nothing is going to change however your reaction to walk away makes things worse because it only heighten her desire to be more and more passive aggressive as the intent is to get a reaction out of you. You are fully aware of what she's doing therefor you choose to walk away so she doesn't end up getting what she wants which is also passive aggressive.
You need to learn how to communicate and not to wait until you're angry to attempt to do so because then of course nothing will get accomplished because you're already angry and past the point that an amical resolution could be reached. The thing is to resolve the issue BEFORE it gets to that point, otherwise it does make trying to resolve the issue much harder and it's understandably why one wouldn't want too at that point because it should have never escalated to that point in the first place.
When your wife suggested you get the baby, you should have said I get that you don't think she's sleepy but lets see how she does for a little while and if she's still fussy then I'll go get her. The end! If she wants to keep talking let her but you be done with it and change the subject. If she continues to talk about it then tell her you'll see her when she gets home or talk to her later because you're about to XYZ. She would realize the baby has went to sleep and all is well but you can't get upset with her for treating you like a child when that's the only way she can get you to participate in resolving the issue. Both of you appear very immature and it's unfortunate that a child is now in the middle of 2 people that have no business being married to each other.
Well, the desire to cool down when the moment is not heated doesn't really occur that often. However, I think rational disagreements happen when I'm not the subject matter. We can disagree on several things and that's fine. When I'm the subject matter, it gets heated because I feel things get a little one-sided, overblown, and I'm getting coerced into submission on something that didn't even happen.
Example:
Watching the baby and I think she's getting cranky because she's sleepy. Wife thinks otherwise. I put baby down in crib, baby whines a bit, (she gets a notification on the monitor app) and she continues to tell me the baby isn't sleepy. She does this in an "don't you think you should" sort of suggesting but really implying I do it because she won't stop suggesting if I don't.
--I get slightly irritated, but not mad
If I don't do what she says, the suggestions don't stop. By the time we finish this discussion on the phone, the baby is asleep. The one time she backed off is because she couldn't argue the results. Other than that, she would have continued to suggest and then say I'm not listening (even though it was an ask/suggestion and not a command) and then say that she knows best because she's mom.
--angry
Then I say, "time out, we're not getting anywhere, you do this very often and I'm her dad and I think I know how to take care of her too" ---walk away.
Now if the baby hadn't gone to sleep, there'd be hell for me to pay.
If you replace the above scenario with several others, I'm being forced to comply or there's a steady stream of disagreement until I obey. Is that honestly what I'm supposed to do? Just obey until there's no fight? At that point I'm just a robot.
In the example he gave, he is right, actually. Had she wanted to take over the nap procedure, that is one thing. But demanding and nagging him to do things her way is not conducive to a healthy relationship. Neither is giving him hell. Sure, they both need to work on their disagreement skills, particularly when not actually disagreeing. But Dad deciding to put baby down for a nap is something that Dads nowadays do.
In the example he gave, he is right, actually. Had she wanted to take over the nap procedure, that is one thing. But demanding and nagging him to do things her way is not conducive to a healthy relationship. Neither is giving him hell. Sure, they both need to work on their disagreement skills, particularly when not actually disagreeing. But Dad deciding to put baby down for a nap is something that Dads nowadays do.
Well, perhaps you're right. Anyway, I'm sure his mom can fix all this for them as planned and we will hear of a positive resolution soon.
Yes that is the real underlining problem here and why the bases of their interactions is based on passive aggressive behavior. He's controlling and thinks he knows it all and doesn't like to be challenged by her or anyone else for that matter. Therefor she goes to extreme measures to make sure she's being heard and listened too when in the end he still tunes her out if she doesn't defer to his way of doing things.
I'm willing to bet throughout their relationship he has bossed her around and told her what to do and now she's fed up with it and purposely challenges him on everything just because of his my way or the highway attitude. He can find issues with everything and everyone but himself and his behavior and I'm sure it's why he doesn't want to go to counseling because he doesn't want to be told that he's responsible for the pile of crap that are in. He runs to family as he knows he'll have someone to defend and validate his actions.
When your wife suggested you get the baby, you should have said I get that you don't think she's sleepy but lets see how she does for a little while and if she's still fussy then I'll go get her. The end! If she wants to keep talking let her but you be done with it and change the subject. If she continues to talk about it then tell her you'll see her when she gets home or talk to her later because you're about to XYZ. She would realize the baby has went to sleep and all is well but you can't get upset with her for treating you like a child when that's the only way she can get you to participate in resolving the issue. Both of you appear very immature and it's unfortunate that a child is now in the middle of 2 people that have no business being married to each other.
Now this is where I have to interject.
Maybe its because I didn't want to inundate with details, but when I said "by the time we're done with the conversation on the phone" I mean that I explained EXACTLY what you described. I have said those exact words, which acknowledges/validates her feelings and that I feel differently. The only reason the situation was resolved is because the baby was now asleep. Had the baby not been asleep, we would be on the x round of "we'll talk about it when I see you" and then when I see her we're still talking about the same thing!
Calling me a child for wanting to walk away when a person is clearly not listening doesn't make me one. The crazier part is that I'm not even looking for validation, but the example YOU gave is exactly what I've been trying to get you guys to see. Now how do you go about resolving something like that when suggestions you've mentioned are followed?
It doesn't end after validating that feeling. It ends when I defer/submit. At this point, you're just trying to paint me as some "brick wall" that doesn't get it.
Well, perhaps you're right. Anyway, I'm sure his mom can fix all this for them as planned and we will hear of a positive resolution soon.
Until OP takes accountability for his actions there will be no positive resolution and I don't see it happening anytime soon as it's obvious he has an unhealthy view of power dynamics within a relationship. His mother probably bossed his dad around so he views allowing a woman to have any say so as a weakness. He must maintain control at all times in order to feel like a man and keep the woman in her place.
Well, perhaps you're right. Anyway, I'm sure his mom can fix all this for them as planned and we will hear of a positive resolution soon.
Mod cut.
Secondly, its not my mom and it wasn't just my decision. She brought it up and I agreed for us to speak with both our parents. As I said, parents can be critical of their own children before they go defending them and that's what we're BOTH hoping for. I'm getting real trolly vibes from you....
Last edited by PJSaturn; 12-23-2016 at 07:52 AM..
Reason: Off-topic.
Yes that is the real underlining problem here and why the bases of their interactions is based on passive aggressive behavior. He's controlling and thinks he knows it all and doesn't like to be challenged by her or anyone else for that matter. Therefor she goes to extreme measures to make sure she's being heard and listened too when in the end he still tunes her out if she doesn't defer to his way of doing things.
I'm willing to bet throughout their relationship he has bossed her around and told her what to do and now she's fed up with it and purposely challenges him on everything just because of his my way or the highway attitude. He can find issues with everything and everyone but himself and his behavior and I'm sure it's why he doesn't want to go to counseling because he doesn't want to be told that he's responsible for the pile of crap that are in. He runs to family as he knows he'll have someone to defend and validate his actions.
Wow. Cosigned. All of this.
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