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Old 01-31-2017, 11:40 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,090 posts, read 82,726,620 times
Reputation: 43659

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL View Post
And yet, for 'my generation' at least,
it's like we still can't admit or talk out loud about considering casual sex or having it.
That may be true of you or your community/frame of reference/ etc...
but it's far too broad a brush to paint all with.

fwiw I'm sure I'm a fair bit older than you
---

The other factor if it wasn't made clear is the age range where it's all happening.
Like it or not... when an older woman (50+?) seeks out younger men... it's assumed to be about sexual performance issues.
I'd say it's a safe bet to call that the case in at least 80-90% of such instances
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:39 PM
 
12,823 posts, read 24,344,965 times
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I'm now north of 50 and obviously 59 (and beyond) will hit me before I know it.

While I'm no longer a horn dog teen ager or twenty something, there is not a substantial lack of sex drive.

It's actually a bit of a sweet spot, in that the "little head" does not do my thinking for me any more, but it still works.

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Old 01-31-2017, 12:44 PM
 
2,867 posts, read 1,532,720 times
Reputation: 8651
I think Moonbeam had a good answer. Where there is power, there are people who will abuse that power. Women as equals is a relatively new thing in terms of human history. Historically so much of a woman's fate was bound to a man, and men wanted women who could assure them of a lineage. If this meant a 45-year-old man married a 14-year-old girl, this is what happened.

Both sexes are capable of predatory behavior. However I think men are more often the perpetrator because they are more often the ones in the position of power or wealth to prey upon someone. It is not right for either gender to do it. Whether we like it or not, when there are obvious significant age differences between partners (more than 10 years), people will make assumptions and judgments. Sometimes those judgments are correct. The older person takes advantage of the younger person's ignorance about things like money, opportunity, negotiations (ie, buying homes, cars, etc.), both to control the younger person and to appear worldly and impressive to the younger person. This is why when a 50-year-old dates a 25-year-old people scoff and say things like "because people his/her own age see right through his/her nonsense."

As for sexuality there is a difference between being assertive or putting effort into wooing someone and being an aggressive, disrespectful pig like the men Moonbeam mentions who send gross, cheap pictures to women. Men joke and say they wish women would send pictures like that to them but all this really means is that the men who do this are so far up their own behinds with what they want that they think everyone wants what they want (gross, cheap pictures). They cannot see past their own way of doing things or seeing the world, which is a problem with boundaries and entitlement. They see women as objects so they objectify themselves with their gross, cheap pictures of their anatomy. They see women as cheap, and they want cheap, so they cheapen themselves and present themselves as a D, quite literally. This is actually pretty sad when I think of it. Is his penis all he has to offer a woman? What a shame. However women do not do things or see the world the way men do, particularly when it comes to sexual things. Some men do not quite understand this so they force their way onto women, and it seems that older men feel more emboldened to do it to younger women who they assume do not have the wits to realize that this is NOT appropriate behavior.

In past generations women were conditioned to accommodate the male way of it, as though the male way is the first or right way and the woman's way is the second or alternative way. Fortunately this has been changing with each generation, which is why so many women go their own way now. Marriage and lifelong commitment is not the way anymore. It is A way, but not THE way and if a man does not "bring more to the table" than money well then sorry but that is not enough. He must be of good character, and men of good character do not disrespect boundaries or treat women like objects. They simply do not. Women no longer need a man for a home and necessities so there is no reason to put up with having the male version of sexuality forced upon them at any age.

I must also add that when I was 20 back in the 80s yes 40 was a dirty old man.

Last edited by Seija; 01-31-2017 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,761,388 times
Reputation: 98359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seija View Post
I think Moonbeam had a good answer. Where there is power, there are people who will abuse that power. Women as equals is a relatively new thing in terms of human history. Historically so much of a woman's fate was bound to a man, and men wanted women who could assure them of a lineage. If this meant a 45-year-old man married a 14-year-old girl, this is what happened.

Both sexes are capable of predatory behavior. However I think men are more often the perpetrator because they are more often the ones in the position of power or wealth to prey upon someone. It is not right for either gender to do it. Whether we like it or not, when there are obvious significant age differences between partners (more than 10 years), people will make assumptions and judgments. Sometimes those judgments are correct. The older person takes advantage of the younger person's ignorance about things like money, opportunity, negotiations (ie, buying homes, cars, etc.), both to control the younger person and to appear worldly and impressive to the younger person. This is why when a 50-year-old dates a 25-year-old people scoff and say things like "because people his/her own age see right through his/her nonsense."

As for sexuality there is a difference between being assertive or putting effort into wooing someone and being an aggressive, disrespectful pig like the men Moonbeam mentions who send gross pictures to women. Men joke and say they wish women would send pictures like that to them but all this really means is that the men who do this are so far up their own behinds with what they want that they think everyone wants what they want (gross pictures). They cannot see past their own way of doing things or seeing the world, which is a problem with boundaries and entitlement. However women do not do things or see the world the way men do, particularly when it comes to sexual things. Unfortunately women have been conditioned to accommodate the male way of it, as though the male way is the first or right way and the woman's way is the second or alternative way. Fortunately this has been changing with each generation, which is why so many women go their own way now. Marriage and lifelong commitment is not the way anymore. It is A way, but not THE way and if a man does not "bring more to the table" than money well then sorry but that is not enough. He must be of good character, and men of good character do not disrespect boundaries or treat women like objects. They simply do not.
***slow clap****

Dang, Seija. Hats off to you!!
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:59 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,838,343 times
Reputation: 40634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seija View Post
I think Moonbeam had a good answer. Where there is power, there are people who will abuse that power. Women as equals is a relatively new thing in terms of human history. Historically so much of a woman's fate was bound to a man, and men wanted women who could assure them of a lineage. If this meant a 45-year-old man married a 14-year-old girl, this is what happened.

Both sexes are capable of predatory behavior. However I think men are more often the perpetrator because they are more often the ones in the position of power or wealth to prey upon someone. It is not right for either gender to do it. Whether we like it or not, when there are obvious significant age differences between partners (more than 10 years), people will make assumptions and judgments. Sometimes those judgments are correct. The older person takes advantage of the younger person's ignorance about things like money, opportunity, negotiations (ie, buying homes, cars, etc.), both to control the younger person and to appear worldly and impressive to the younger person. This is why when a 50-year-old dates a 25-year-old people scoff and say things like "because people his/her own age see right through his/her nonsense."

As for sexuality there is a difference between being assertive or putting effort into wooing someone and being an aggressive, disrespectful pig like the men Moonbeam mentions who send gross, cheap pictures to women. Men joke and say they wish women would send pictures like that to them but all this really means is that the men who do this are so far up their own behinds with what they want that they think everyone wants what they want (gross, cheap pictures). They cannot see past their own way of doing things or seeing the world, which is a problem with boundaries and entitlement. They see women as objects so they objectify themselves with their gross, cheap pictures of their anatomy. They see women as cheap, and they want cheap, so they cheapen themselves and present themselves as a D, quite literally. This is actually pretty sad when I think of it. Is his penis all he has to offer a woman? What a shame. However women do not do things or see the world the way men do, particularly when it comes to sexual things. Some men do not quite understand this so they force their way onto women, and it seems that older men feel more emboldened to do it to younger women who they assume do not have the wits to realize that this is NOT appropriate behavior.

In past generations women were conditioned to accommodate the male way of it, as though the male way is the first or right way and the woman's way is the second or alternative way. Fortunately this has been changing with each generation, which is why so many women go their own way now. Marriage and lifelong commitment is not the way anymore. It is A way, but not THE way and if a man does not "bring more to the table" than money well then sorry but that is not enough. He must be of good character, and men of good character do not disrespect boundaries or treat women like objects. They simply do not. Women no longer need a man for a home and necessities so there is no reason to put up with having the male version of sexuality forced upon them at any age.

I must also add that when I was 20 back in the 80s yes 40 was a dirty old man.
Eh, I think you make some good points, and are generally spot on, but there are so many exceptions. Yes, I've had women send unsolicited pics, and ask for them (and I met several and yes they're women, and not trashy ones in the least, just aggressive sexually). It's not gross if both parties want to engage it in, just like going home with someone you just met isn't gross if both parties want to do so. It would be super rude and presumptuous to say these women aren't being themselves and are adopting "male" views of sexuality.

Just sending it unsolicited to someone you don't know is messed up, to me though. But it works for some I understand.

And while I have my OKC as +/- years, I had more than a handful of women message me who were born the year (plus or minus 1-2) that I graduated high school (1990). Especially true on hook up apps like Tinder. I have more people that age range writing me now than when I was 35.

There are all types out there. But overall I think that was a very good post.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,761,388 times
Reputation: 98359
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Eh, I think you make some good points, and are generally spot on, but there are so many exceptions.


Seija's language accounted for exceptions ...

"historically"
"generally"
"some"
"many"
"often"
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:13 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,838,343 times
Reputation: 40634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life View Post


Seija's language accounted for exceptions ...

"historically"
"generally"
"some"
"many"
"often"
Not in the specific points I was commenting on. In the broader points she did, but especially with this paragraph, there were loads of generalizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seija View Post
Men joke and say they wish women would send pictures like that to them but all this really means is that the men who do this are so far up their own behinds with what they want that they think everyone wants what they want (gross, cheap pictures). They cannot see past their own way of doing things or seeing the world, which is a problem with boundaries and entitlement. They see women as objects so they objectify themselves with their gross, cheap pictures of their anatomy. They see women as cheap, and they want cheap, so they cheapen themselves and present themselves as a D, quite literally. This is actually pretty sad when I think of it. Is his penis all he has to offer a woman? What a shame. However women do not do things or see the world the way men do, particularly when it comes to sexual things. Some men do not quite understand this so they force their way onto women, and it seems that older men feel more emboldened to do it to younger women who they assume do not have the wits to realize that this is NOT appropriate behavior.

In past generations women were conditioned to accommodate the male way of it, as though the male way is the first or right way and the woman's way is the second or alternative way.
The bolded is especially problematic, as it is a gross generalization, I find men and women are far more similar than different, and variations from individuals vary much more than variations between genders.

And the underlined part basically says there is a male way, and a female way, and I think that is a flat out untruth. There is an individual way.

That's fine though, its hard, if not impossible, to not make generalizations and have a discussion. It was a good post.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:32 PM
 
6,304 posts, read 8,993,311 times
Reputation: 8149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seija View Post
Both sexes are capable of predatory behavior. However I think men are more often the perpetrator because they are more often the ones in the position of power or wealth to prey upon someone. It is not right for either gender to do it. Whether we like it or not, when there are obvious significant age differences between partners (more than 10 years), people will make assumptions and judgments. Sometimes those judgments are correct. The older person takes advantage of the younger person's ignorance about things like money, opportunity, negotiations (ie, buying homes, cars, etc.), both to control the younger person and to appear worldly and impressive to the younger person. This is why when a 50-year-old dates a 25-year-old people scoff and say things like "because people his/her own age see right through his/her nonsense."
People make judgments all the time. It's part of the nature of being human.

Where the issue comes in, at least for me, is when people lose the ability to keep their judgments to themselves, and even worse, try to defend their dismissal of other people's relationships.
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Old 01-31-2017, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,020 posts, read 805,291 times
Reputation: 2103
I'm pretty new here & have only been reading for a few weeks before joining, so my perspective may be very different. Selja said the hard stuff & ITA with it, but also with that bit of humor at the end, paraphrased 'when I was 20, 40 was a dirty old man'. I've noticed myself feeling a bit that way.

The thing I've noticed here more than what OP has brought into question is a reluctance to believe or gross-out-factor, that anyone over 35 has sex, period. Of either gender. I have seen multiple references that show incredulity that 60 yo's have sex or even CAN have sex. For me, I think that I'm somewhat sensitive to it, simply b/c I'm not normally exposed to this attitude & it struck me as odd. After considering it for a bit, I realized that in my real life, I'm surrounded mainly by people my own age, give or take 10 years, so they all know that a healthy sex life is common even in the 70's & beyond. But suddenly, I've placed myself in a forum with a bunch of much younger people than I normally socialize with & when I was in my 20's, I wouldn't have believed that most 50 yo's had satisfying sex lives, so natch, they think that of us. Plus I admit to being shocked not all that long ago, when the wife of an ill friend well into his 80's passed & she told me, "he still liked his nookie every day" :-) So there ya go, at 50, I think the 80 yo is a "dirty old man". There is definitely more of a bias towards older men/younger women in society, but I think it's slowly being equaled by the 'cougar' stereotype. Another thing this forum has made me realize, due to all the questions abt large age discrepancies, is that it's not so much about the ages, as it is, the stage of life. 50 yo & 65 yo, with either gender being older, no big deal either way. 20 & 35 yo, bigger deal. Not insurmountable, but a bigger deal.

Not to derail your original question OP, I think what I've noticed is a tangental topic & like you queried, I think I notice it, b/c I'm now one in that situation, so the comments hit home more, if that makes sense.
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Old 01-31-2017, 02:04 PM
 
2,867 posts, read 1,532,720 times
Reputation: 8651
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Eh, I think you make some good points, and are generally spot on, but there are so many exceptions. Yes, I've had women send unsolicited pics, and ask for them (and I met several and yes they're women, and not trashy ones in the least, just aggressive sexually). It's not gross if both parties want to engage it in, just like going home with someone you just met isn't gross if both parties want to do so. It would be super rude and presumptuous to say these women aren't being themselves and are adopting "male" views of sexuality.
My opinion is that unsolicited pornography--which is what those pictures are--is trashy, whether it is a man or a woman who does it. If someone wants to be foolish enough to send pictures of themselves that anyone can post anywhere that is their decision, but to just send these things without even asking is trashy in my opinion.

I do not think women are nearly as aggressive sexually as men are. Yes, I mean this generally. Generally women DO regard sexual things differently than men. This is just nature. This is not to say women cannot be aggressive, but by and large when women are aggressive it tends to be targeted and with men they already know, not strangers the way men can be. Men will send far more solicitations for sex with strangers online, in bars, etc., than women will. This is across the spectrum. Gay men are more likely to cruise for casual sex than gay women are. Testosterone is what it is. There is nothing wrong with testosterone or a certain amount of aggression, EXCEPT that there is no dearth of men who do not know how to, or care to, channel their aggression properly or know when to stop and they cross the line into unacceptable behavior. There is not a woman who has ever done online dating who has not encountered inappropriate behavior from men like this. This is another reason people speak of male sexuality in less than glowing terms. When a man will put his penis in anything with a pulse, his own worth goes down. I do not think the whole "stud" thing applies as much as it did 40 years ago. Maybe among very young, very naive people but part of maturity is having the self-respect and wisdom to be discerning in where one puts one's genitalia for one's own health and well-being.

As for these women not being themselves, it is entirely possible they could be seeking approval and attention in an unhealthy way, like how you see straight women put on shows making out with each other in clubs to get attention from the guys. They may indeed be accommodating the male way of doing things because they think this is what men want and not because they want to do it themselves as an expression of themselves. Show me a stripper, porn actress, or Tinder woman who sends out nudes to men she doesn't know, and I will show you someone who most likely has self-esteem problems.
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