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Old 05-26-2017, 08:22 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,138,096 times
Reputation: 29347

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
This has nothing at all to do with a new car. This has to do with your wife wanting a "do over" and wish she had stuck up for her children against your unreasonable and rigid enforcer personality.
You have a twisted idea of "controlling" and "unreasonable" if you think requiring adult-age children to not stay out too late is too much to ask in exchange for free room and board. Your reading comprehension skills are also lacking as he wasn't "requiring" them to live at home but offered them that as an option. And who are you to say he should have sent them off to college when you don't know if their finances could support that? It's always easier spending Other People's Money.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
2,148 posts, read 1,690,187 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchback View Post
Well we had a very long conversation last night where I calmly explained how the car purchase and other enabling decisions we've been fighting about for years make me feel regarding a loss of trust as well as respect for her and that I am not ok with it.

I didn't say the words (I want a.....) but I did ask her if we are dysfunctional enough when it comes to parenting that we might just be better off apart and that maybe we were just delaying the inevitable? She didn't really answer..

She said she had thought about us parting before, but that obviously I'd been thinking about it a lot more..

She we went off on a tangent where I now understand that she feels guilty about how the older girls left home, blames me for it as well as herself for going along with me as she put it. What this is about was the problem we had with both girls where I/we offered for them to stay and live at home after high school, go to college and work and live and eat free. However, a caveat was that they had to keep some reasonable hours, meaning be home by our bedtime (11:00 week nights) because we both work. Neither girl could abide by this and there was some serious friction between mainly me, the light sleeper and "the enforcer of the house" and both ultimately decided they wanted to go get their own apartment. This was against my advice and I appealed to them both to just keep some respectable hours and we'd be good, but both opted to move out. My wife said last night, "we should have made them stay" and they would have been much better off...which legally we couldn't have, but that is her opinion.

I told her that I wondered if she'd just be happier staying in Texas where she is, near the grand babies and without me and the friction between us and asked if she'd felt the same...she wouldn't really say..

She said she had a feeling I wasn't going to forgive her over this and I asked why she would then risk it when she knew I'd be upset and she wouldn't really answer.

I told her that I lost a lot of trust in her over this as well as respect because she showed me none and that why would anyone want to be with someone they don't trust or respect?

She began to cry..but continued talking to me for a while..

She cried through the rest of the conversation and eventually asked if she could go and we hung up. I don't know why she "asked" if she could go, she doesn't need my permission to end the conversation and I thought that was odd.

She did not tell me she loves me (neither did I although I do) she did not apologize or ask me to give her another chance to prove she cares and is committed to me or anything of that matter.

I don't know if her crying (which she rarely does at least in my presence) was frustration at being torn between her girls and me, the thought of the loss of 20+ years of history together or what..

That said, I am satisfied and feel so much better that I finally got her to hear me out about how I feel and how her actions make me feel without cutting off the conversation and telling me she doesn't want to talk about it.

However, I went to bed upset and sad that she was crying and still feel the same way this morning. I do really love and care about her and hate to see her hurting..

Relationships are difficult is an understatement..
So, a couple of things I'm noticing...

1. You asked quite a few very relevant questions, none of which she chose to answer. This tells me she is happy to let you make the decision regarding the divorce. It absolves her of ANY blame. She can simply say it was your decision entirely. That certainly seems to fit her MO, as she didn't voice her displeasure with the decision to let the daughters stay in the house when they turned 18. Only when things are going badly is she willing to say anything, primarily that it's your fault. She's simply not willing to take responsibility for her part in raising her own daughters. Which leads me to...

2. She needs help. Not marriage counseling help, but help in understanding her role and responsibility in raising her children. Right now, you are simply the scapegoat in any conflict that comes along. She is using you shamelessly.

My opinion is, insist on her getting help to realize her role in her children's lives. Make her understand that, if she does not get help, she is STILL going to be responsible for them, so she might as well do it, whether the two of you stay together or not.

If she does get help, then I would say there is a some hope. If she refuses, it's time to cut the cord and move on.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:43 AM
 
35,521 posts, read 17,818,962 times
Reputation: 50529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan123 View Post
Not the impression I got at all. From what I read the OP's requests were more than reasonable.
The OPs requests DID sound more than reasonable, I agree. The thought of giving his wife's car to the daughter and buying the wife a new car certainly sounds like a very good plan.

Until you peel away the layers.

He's always been "the enforcer", and his stepdaughters hate him. His wife sounds like a peach, who is trying very hard to make this work where her daughters are treated with love, and she treats her husband with respect and love also. In last night's discussion, when she said "I wish we had made the kids stay home", she could have said "I wish I made you stop bullying them so they were driven out of our home".

It's the attitude that comes off - I know many parents can't afford college (or won't, and expect their kids to make it on their own) but it's not done punitively. It's the attitude of you're capable, we'll help you find a place, let me help you with scholarships, etc., in a supportive, loving way that makes the difference.

Setting down children's rules and then making their lives so difficult (being "the enforcer") that they move out is not the same thing.

I think if the OP decides to leave his wife he'll be very, very sorry. She sounds like a delightful woman who is for some reason willing to put up with his bossiness and still love him.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:44 AM
 
71 posts, read 177,749 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Finally, finally, after 18 pages of discussion the core truth of your disagreement comes out. This isn't a "tangent" Switchback - this is the crux of your disagreement about the car.

Despite you saying that you have a wonderful relationship with your two adult stepdaughters, in fact, you don't, and you probably never have - or anyway not for a very long time. You're the "enforcer", enforcing a rigid set of rules on them that in my opinion treat them like children. Using the excuse that you don't sleep well, you made rules for them that made them continue to feel like children when they were trying to grow into adults.

Your controlling behavior drove them out. Now your wife feels guilty she didn't stick up for them, or treat them as her friends were treating their daughters which is to say send them off to college, and not require that they live at home "free". If you could afford college, my guess is, that's what your wife wanted and your stepdaughters wanted.

This has nothing at all to do with a new car. This has to do with your wife wanting a "do over" and wish she had stuck up for her children against your unreasonable and rigid enforcer personality.
As they were 1 year apart, there is no way we could have afforded to have sent them to college.. We did tell them that we would help each of them as much as we were able..

Both got wrapped up in "boys" which is really what derailed them and the middle one had a child and then a 2nd with her boyfriend which sealed the deal that things would be difficult for her..

As to me calling myself the enforcer, maybe I shouldn't have given you such a strong title that you could berate me about. All I really meant by that is that I held them to a standard where my wife would hold them to no standard and they would walk all over her and they did. I don't believe you can have an 18 or 19-year-old living in your house and allow them to completely come and go as they please. The pattern that was occurring was out till two or 3 AM then sleeping till noon then rushing to get school work done and repeat again the next day. That just didn't work for me, and you can call it whatever you want, but when they are coming in the front door at 2 AM on a weekday morning I absolutely hear that door open and close and it startles me out of sleep, makes me want to reach for the nightstand gun, the blood pressure goes up and then I can't go back to sleep it makes for a miserable day at work. My wife however she can sleep through anything so it didn't bother her.

Last edited by Switchback; 05-26-2017 at 08:56 AM..
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:47 AM
 
35,521 posts, read 17,818,962 times
Reputation: 50529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Switchback View Post
As they were 1 year apart, there is. I way in hell we could have sent them to college.. We did tell them that we would help each of them as much as we were able..

Both got wrapped up in "boys" which is really what derailed them and the middle one had a child and then a 2nd with her boyfriend which sealed the deal that things would be difficult for her..
I feel for you, Switchback, you're in a stuck place, and I don't mean to sound unempathetic.

But you know what they say about girls who go "looking for love in all the wrong places". Yes, they did leave home to seek positive male attention. Both of them.

And I don't know what you can do now to mend this with your wife, whom you obviously love. And she loves you too.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
2,148 posts, read 1,690,187 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
The OPs requests DID sound more than reasonable, I agree. The thought of giving his wife's car to the daughter and buying the wife a new car certainly sounds like a very good plan.

Until you peel away the layers.

He's always been "the enforcer", and his stepdaughters hate him. His wife sounds like a peach, who is trying very hard to make this work where her daughters are treated with love, and she treats her husband with respect and love also. In last night's discussion, when she said "I wish we had made the kids stay home", she could have said "I wish I made you stop bullying them so they were driven out of our home".

It's the attitude that comes off - I know many parents can't afford college (or won't, and expect their kids to make it on their own) but it's not done punitively. It's the attitude of you're capable, we'll help you find a place, let me help you with scholarships, etc., in a supportive, loving way that makes the difference.

Setting down children's rules and then making their lives so difficult (being "the enforcer") that they move out is not the same thing.

I think if the OP decides to leave his wife he'll be very, very sorry. She sounds like a delightful woman who is for some reason willing to put up with his bossiness and still love him.
I could not disagree more. The wife has clearly been an enabler that has undermined their development, which includes personal responsibility. The wife has been the bad example they have chosen to follow.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:48 AM
 
16,715 posts, read 19,355,889 times
Reputation: 41482
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Your controlling behavior drove them out.
So her children should be allowed to come home at whatever time they want while they are living under his roof? They should be able to do whatever their little hearts desire simply because their mother is a pushover and wants to be more of a friend than a parent?

Mmmkay.

If that's controlling behavior, then no wonder so many youth of this day feel so entitled.
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:56 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,138,096 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
The OPs requests DID sound more than reasonable, I agree. The thought of giving his wife's car to the daughter and buying the wife a new car certainly sounds like a very good plan.

Until you peel away the layers.
I think you're peeling away imaginary layers to reach your pre-determined opinion that the husband is an overbearing unreasonable tyrant entirely to blame and the wife is a wonderful understanding lady who has never done anything wrong.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:02 AM
 
8,170 posts, read 6,018,431 times
Reputation: 5963
Quote:
Originally Posted by reds37win View Post
So, a couple of things I'm noticing...

1. You asked quite a few very relevant questions, none of which she chose to answer. This tells me she is happy to let you make the decision regarding the divorce. It absolves her of ANY blame. She can simply say it was your decision entirely. That certainly seems to fit her MO, as she didn't voice her displeasure with the decision to let the daughters stay in the house when they turned 18. Only when things are going badly is she willing to say anything, primarily that it's your fault. She's simply not willing to take responsibility for her part in raising her own daughters. Which leads me to...

2. She needs help. Not marriage counseling help, but help in understanding her role and responsibility in raising her children. Right now, you are simply the scapegoat in any conflict that comes along. She is using you shamelessly.

My opinion is, insist on her getting help to realize her role in her children's lives. Make her understand that, if she does not get help, she is STILL going to be responsible for them, so she might as well do it, whether the two of you stay together or not.

If she does get help, then I would say there is a some hope. If she refuses, it's time to cut the cord and move on.
As someone that has been in a similar relationship, I would put money on that the OP is controlling and he is the type that expects everything to be his way. She probably has no choice but to do things his way as he is the enforcer. She probably does have quilt over the way the op has taken over in the raising of her children. She finally grew a backbone, did what she felt was best for her child, and now the OP is upset because things did not go as he planned. I am sure at this point she is tired of doing things his way.
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Old 05-26-2017, 09:08 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,138,096 times
Reputation: 29347
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowonLuck View Post
As someone that has been in a similar relationship, I would put money on that the OP is controlling and he is the type that expects everything to be his way.
And yet... she has historically handled all the finances and the OP asks "the finance manager" if they can afford it anytime he wants to spend over $100. Not typical of "controllers".
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