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Yes they are in denial. But they know they have an internal struggle and therefore should remain single until sure. Do not drag anyone into this situation until you yourself are sure of your feelings. It’s unkind, unloving and not fair to the innocent party.
The reason I don't agree with this perspective, is one of those reasons I cite very often for having a different view than many. I am about the journey, not the destination. In fact as far as I'm concerned, I don't expect or truly want a "destination" during my lifetime. I feel like most people want to find someone who will hopefully never change in any significant ways, get the home they'll live in for life, work hopefully the same career, eventually retire, raise a generation or two...that's your standard issue American dream, right? Not me. I am constantly evolving and a work in progress. My interests and hobbies and tastes change, my body grows older, my values evolve, my friendships and relationships start, progress, mature, often end, and I walk a path. There are things I now know to be fundamentally true about what I need to be happy, healthy, and genuine, that I didn't know 3 or 4 years ago, let alone when I was 18 or 20. Was I supposed to stay single until I truly knew myself? At age 36? And at what point was I supposed to be quite certain I was a finished product, happy with everything about who I am? What if I never was, and never will be?
A person is not a product you buy off a shelf. Where you ought to have some guarantees against false advertising or it not meeting your expectations for the duration of your ownership of it. Ultimately whether the OP is ok to continue in the relationship or not, is HER thing to handle. Throwing it back on her spouse...I don't agree with that. Obviously, OP would be well within her rights to say, "This won't work for me. I have to quit this relationship." We all have that right, for any reason at any time.
But to me it isn't strange at all, to have something deep within your very self, that you figure you can live without until eventually you realize you're not being genuine, you're not able to be happy as you are, and you have to accept this thing and learn to make it part of your reality. You tried to live without it and hoped the need would just go away if you didn't feed it, but it never did. Some people wait until quite late in life to decide to go ahead and live what they believe to be their own truths.
At the same time though? OP may find that being with a transwoman is not something that HER own true self can live happily with, and if that should come to pass, I hope she would do what is healthy and best for her, and end the relationship.
Also? An end of a marriage or relationship...I really hate how our culture and even our laws make blame and fault such a thing in that. Sometimes a relationship ending is exactly what needs to happen. It just is. There's just not always a villain and a hero (or victim) in every story.
I would feel slighted (even understanding how this could happen) by my spouse never being able to tell me anything about thier internal struggles if they understood it could affect our relationship in any way meaningful.
especially if they had any form of this knowledge and held on to it for years, keeping it to themselves.
The rest is easy to come to terms with...it’s the living a totally different life inside than you do on the outside that would cause me the most set back and genuine questions to our future.
your spouse didn't come out as transgendered. He came out as being very mixed up. Love him enough to help him. His feelings are not reality. Just as an anorexic sees herself or himself as fat, they are not fat. Accept who they are, flaws such as not seeing or understanding reality in this sense, just as they accept your flaws. Support them to remain in reality. Support them not to define themselves by a feeling (such as whatever gender they feel they are attracted to) but what they are.
His or her mental illness needs to be addressed .....just as any mental illness does. Not celebrated or honored. That is a recipe for disaster. I wish you BOTH the best of luck.
Mental illness? LOLOLOL
Yeah, ok.
You see it your way but I just don't see it that way. However, thanks for your input.
At times I get very resentful---especially when she treats me like I am her girlfriend and not her wife. For example, before she came out, if we went out to eat my husband would pay the bill (makes almost 3 times an hour to what I make) Now that "she" is out, we go out and she says "So, are you buying, we splitting or am I?". Every Single Time.
I think for the sake of the relationship, if over the rest of your lives together you stay together, you have no choice but to evolve with your spouse's 'new identity'. Undoubtedly, this shows that your personality needs to change a bit too. This makes it seem like your husband wants to experience 'dating' in the role of a woman, which would necessitate you taking on the role of a 'man' momentarily, and paying once in a while, while your husband orders whatever he wants from the menu, just like a woman might be told to do when out on a date.
I always looked at my husband as my best friend, so I'm not sure being 'her girlfriend' would be an impossible transition, but I am sure our roles would change. I loved my husband dearly, and I know I would not pack up and leave immediately, but I'm not sure I would be mentally strong enough to create an 'illusion persona' to call upon when my husband wanted to experience life from a female perspective.
I can say I felt like I gave up a lot of myself to become his wife in a traditional sense, as I'm sure he did when he decided he wanted to be my husband, because that's what relationships are - making adjustments to present the world with a 'we' factor, instead of the singular 'I' and 'Me'.
If I was able to do that, I think I would make sure my husband experienced a complete female role, and also shared the full female life. The chores. "So love, how about I go get the car washed while you clean the bathroom this Saturday." "Hey babe, I'm hungry. Why don't you make me a sandwich, while I finish watching this movie." "Will you be handling the laundry this week, sweetie?" "Is it your night to make dinner and do the dishes or is it mine?" "I have a board meeting tomorrow dear, could you iron my skirt for me? I want to look sharp for it."
I'm not sure I would be strong enough to do all this, and not lose sight of who I am. God bless you in your strength and perseverance. Regardless if he is a she or not, you obviously do love him. All the best to you both in your new life together.
Thank you
I have tired to say we should not the traditional roles we had before everything changed but my spouse has basically gotten to comfortable with me doing all the housework, making dinner, etc.
I just don't want my spouse to treat me as the girlfriend at this point. We did recently talk about it again. I am hope it all works out for the best for both of us
Wow! "Horrific situation"? Really? Sad, difficult, challenging, yes, but I see nothing "horrific" here. What hyperbole!
OP, I have not been in this situation, but I do know a large number of T's (as compared to the average person) & so I've had a fair amount of experience with transgendered friends & acquaintances. I fully realize that is very different than if I, a cis-female, suddenly was told by my cis-male husband that he is trans. I agree completely with what Sonic Spork wrote & I have observed that there is kind of a 'honeymoon period' when someone is finally able to live as the gender they always were, that they are kind of in a 'kid in a candystore' mode. I wonder if some of that is what's happening with your spouse? I even saw that evolution watching Caitlyn Jenner's show.
I give you much respect & admiration b/c even as a person who has no moral, ethical or religious issues with Trans folks, I don't know if I could be okay with their being such a big change in my own relationship. But I would *think* (I think this is the kind of thing no one really knows how they would respond unless it happens to them), that I would give it a shot b/c like you, I love my spouse for who he is & not for what gender he is. However, not having a lesbian bone in my body, I must admit it would be a challenge for me. I think that even if I could not ultimately make it work, I would still have a great deal of love & respect (maybe even more than before) for my former spouse & wish them nothing but strength & success in their future life & relationships.
Were your roles gender defined to begin with from a household standpoint? I think it's really odd that she would suddenly now expect you to pay. But I also would think it was odd if you had always expected 'him' to pay in the past. I have a really egalitarian relationship though, so to me, things like paying or who takes out the garbage, have never been based on gender. Often for us, paying depends on who gets to the credit card faster & since we share finances, it doesn't really matter anyway. I would caution you though, not to stay so silent on these issues b/c although they may be little things, if not discussed, it's the little things that can build resentment over time. Esp if you feel you are the one always compromising. If your marriage did have a traditional gender-role aspect to it & you liked that, then it's perfectly normal for you to mourn & miss that. Just as it's normal for your wife to now want to be treated as a lady, in whatever ways she defines that. I would highly recommend a counselor to help you both compromise on these issues. It sounds like there needs to be some communication on what things make your wife feel like a woman & what things have made you feel secure in your female-ness, as well. Do you know any lesbian couples? It may help to talk to others about how they navigate it.
Also, if you like, please PM me. I know of a great LBGTQ counselor who specializes in Trans/gender issues. She is local to CO, but I'm almost positive that she does phone & video appts. She's even written a book on the topic. I would be happy to share her info, if you're interested.
OP, just remember that while your situation is very, very unique, the issues you're dealing with, communications, compromise, dishonesty (more complicated than that), etc. are NOT AT ALL unique. Hetero cis couples deal with all these things too & maybe that will help keep things in perspective for you. You probably look at your relationship at times & have to think it's kinda crazy what you've both gone through, but ultimately, you are 2 human beings who love each other, relating to one another & there's nothing really crazy about that :-)
Wow! "Horrific situation"? Really? Sad, difficult, challenging, yes, but I see nothing "horrific" here. What hyperbole!
OP, I have not been in this situation, but I do know a large number of T's (as compared to the average person) & so I've had a fair amount of experience with transgendered friends & acquaintances. I fully realize that is very different than if I, a cis-female, suddenly was told by my cis-male husband that he is trans. I agree completely with what Sonic Spork wrote & I have observed that there is kind of a 'honeymoon period' when someone is finally able to live as the gender they always were, that they are kind of in a 'kid in a candystore' mode. I wonder if some of that is what's happening with your spouse? I even saw that evolution watching Caitlyn Jenner's show.
I give you much respect & admiration b/c even as a person who has no moral, ethical or religious issues with Trans folks, I don't know if I could be okay with their being such a big change in my own relationship. But I would *think* (I think this is the kind of thing no one really knows how they would respond unless it happens to them), that I would give it a shot b/c like you, I love my spouse for who he is & not for what gender he is. However, not having a lesbian bone in my body, I must admit it would be a challenge for me. I think that even if I could not ultimately make it work, I would still have a great deal of love & respect (maybe even more than before) for my former spouse & wish them nothing but strength & success in their future life & relationships.
Were your roles gender defined to begin with from a household standpoint? I think it's really odd that she would suddenly now expect you to pay. But I also would think it was odd if you had always expected 'him' to pay in the past. I have a really egalitarian relationship though, so to me, things like paying or who takes out the garbage, have never been based on gender. Often for us, paying depends on who gets to the credit card faster & since we share finances, it doesn't really matter anyway. I would caution you though, not to stay so silent on these issues b/c although they may be little things, if not discussed, it's the little things that can build resentment over time. Esp if you feel you are the one always compromising. If your marriage did have a traditional gender-role aspect to it & you liked that, then it's perfectly normal for you to mourn & miss that. Just as it's normal for your wife to now want to be treated as a lady, in whatever ways she defines that. I would highly recommend a counselor to help you both compromise on these issues. It sounds like there needs to be some communication on what things make your wife feel like a woman & what things have made you feel secure in your female-ness, as well. Do you know any lesbian couples? It may help to talk to others about how they navigate it.
Also, if you like, please PM me. I know of a great LBGTQ counselor who specializes in Trans/gender issues. She is local to CO, but I'm almost positive that she does phone & video appts. She's even written a book on the topic. I would be happy to share her info, if you're interested.
OP, just remember that while your situation is very, very unique, the issues you're dealing with, communications, compromise, dishonesty (more complicated than that), etc. are NOT AT ALL unique. Hetero cis couples deal with all these things too & maybe that will help keep things in perspective for you. You probably look at your relationship at times & have to think it's kinda crazy what you've both gone through, but ultimately, you are 2 human beings who love each other, relating to one another & there's nothing really crazy about that :-)
Hi MsMetal!
Thank you for sharing what you know and how you feel on this subject. We have been to counseling a few times. In the beginning it was because she came out to me and so we went to the counselor that deals with Trans issues. (this was the same counselor she went to years ago when she wanted to find out why she felt this way) Anyway, I went to see this counselor a few times by myself and then after that we went together. A few years went by and I started to have issues with the way she was behaving. So, back to the counselor I went. I again, went a few times by myself and then we went together again. I basically wanted this counselor to tell my spouse that she needs to realize what I gave up to make her happy and to start showing that she appreciated it. It was better for a year or so after that. However, it is just natural for two people to start taking each other for granted after so many years. It's just that I do get resentful sometimes because she can be SO damn self-centered. Yes, she did go through the "pink fog" in the beginning and I know all about that. I read countless books about this subject (Transgender issues, etc.)
I've read the books written by the spouses like me that stay as well----spent many teary eyed nights reading those.
My spouse, when I thought she was a man through and through, would always go to pay the check when we were out. However, I would say every once in a while, "Oh let me get it or let me help". But "he" never expected me to pay or help because "he" has always been the bread winner in the family. Incidentally, "he" made me quite college when I met "Him" because "it just takes too much time away from us".....I said "Well, if I don't get a college education, I won't make much more than I am making now" and the response "Oh, don't worry, I'll take care of you financially". Yeah, ok.
I also do NOT consider my spouse my "wife". Nope, not going to happen in my vocabulary. She got her name legally changed recently and asked me if we should get our marriage certificate changed and I said "No way, I married a man with a man's name back then so it's staying that way" My reason? Legal issues down the road. I want to be able to prove that this person with the female name now is still the person I married years ago. One never knows!
I am proud that I helped this person I fell in love with be how they really are. There is a reason for everything. "What doesn't kill ya, makes you stronger".
She copies everything I do and for a while that was flattering in the way of the old saying "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". It got old. Especially when she started wearing wigs that were my hair color. So, I dyed my hair dark. She then got dark wigs. We go out and people say "Are you sisters?" Yeah, ok, it was funny for a while and sometimes we would explain our relationship. Now I just don't. Let them think we are sisters, whatever. But recently I decided to dye my hair back to my natural color. Told her I was doing it. The day I had it done, you guessed it, she had purchased a wig color that was close to that color --Again.
She really doesn't look good with my natural color and I told her that a long time ago. So, I reminded her that she looks better with the dark color. What I wanted to say was "Will ya stop copying everything I do for the Love of God?" LOLOLOL
She is going to drive me insane when she retires next year.
I hate to say it but I think I'd be pretty disturbed at the imitations, too. Like, I've gone on dates with men who had personalities that were uncannily similar to mine, very "finishing sentences" and discovering we've had the same thoughts and perspectives on nearly everything...and I didn't like it. I mean, I like myself fine, but I feel like when someone is SO like me, they are too predictable and boring.
The partner I have now delights me with the surprises he springs on me, saying and doing things I don't expect. We have enough common ground to respect each other, without feeling like I'm dating my clone.
Having someone deliberately trying to emulate everything I did, would bother me. A lot. In fact when my ex informed me that he only likes to look at women in online porn who look like me, and remarked on how many look very much like me...I was pretty seriously squicked. He always would fix on the idea of the woman he was with, so intensely, that it's like she's the ideal of what represents perfection in womanhood. That should have been flattering maybe, but it was unnerving instead.
I think the point needs somehow to be made to your spouse that you are not narcissistic enough to want to be in a relationship with your own mirror image. I don't know what it will take for her to stop trying to be you, and just be herself...but whatever it is, that needs to happen.
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