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No, this isn't putting things into perspective, this is the self-sabotage Birdie spoke of. This is YOUR MINDSET, not reality. This is you marking your own price tag for others to see. If you think you're not worth much, why would they invest in you?
Right there -- "I am no one to speak to" -- you just said "not worth talking to." That's not a "not-alpha" characteristic, that's a SAD characteristic. It screams SAD and nobody wants to be with sadness.
Forget what someone else may see physically about yourself for now. Forget other people. Think about how YOU see you, and work on it. Work toward being satisfied with YOURSELF.
Perhaps not as much as you think, based on your self-evaluation. You already said you weren't worth talking to.
WHO CARES? Not everyone gets to be Tarzan, and there are plenty of guys out there who are physically mediocre at best, who still end up with amazing women. They are not the rule, definitely an exception -- but is it because guys like that don't get the girl? Or because guys like that usually lack the confidence to GO GET the girl?
This is the result of too many pickup books and sites, locker room and bar talk.
You don't realize that what you're saying here is "I'm not secure enough to even try and be friends after you've rejected my romantic overtures."
It bugs me too, BUT that's this hypothetical woman's problem, not yours. Mostly, they're trying really awkwardly to be nice because they know a rejection stings and they feel they need to say SOMETHING to ease the sting, even if it sounds lame or disingenuous. That's just human frailty in action.
In the meantime the rest of your post is where YOU need the work.
I hear you on most of your points, except for the bolded one. What I meant to say was, I dont consider myself anyone to speak for my own looks, whether how good-looking or otherwise I am -- only because I find that vain, arrogant and even awkward.
That's what I meant to say - not that I am worth speaking to at all in general; I know that I am worthy enough of talking to otherwise lol, generally speaking I mean. I carry conversations pretty well with most people and have a decent social circle so it's not like I am a loner or miserable in that way.
Avoid the temptation to see all of these things as must haves before you can succeed at dating... .
Yep. Do not take the approach of, "No one will want me until I have this career, this weight, this car," etc ...
As far as the "you will meet a great woman someday..." line ...
People use all kinds of brush-off lines, but I firmly believe that when a woman takes the time to say, "You will find a great woman someday ..." they feel like you have potential. It's not a total brush-off or sugar coating. It means you aren't the one for them, but you have some baseline qualities that will bring you success with the right person.
Yes, the talk of "leagues" seems to fit here, but I also firmly believe that people do not NEED to stay in their own leagues. It's the whole "shoot for the moon because even if you fail you'll land among the stars ..." cheesy kind of approach. You might as well try because you never really do know who you will connect with.
Yeah if we're being honest while it isn't all about looks it starts with looks..most people aren't gonna want to date somebody less attractive then themselves.
I'm friends with a cute women who loves me a lot we get along great have similliar interests senses of humor etc but I get that she probably doesn't want to date me because she can find a cute guy who she's into..why would she settle for me when she can do better looks wise?
We can be PC but that plays a big role in attraction and what people will settle for.
Physical attraction is an important component for many people. I'd imagine even for you. Are you down with the homely ladies? Do you expect to find the woman you want to date physically attractive, or do you just not care?
And just having some similar interests and shared sense of humor does not necessarily translate to relationship compatibility. That's setting the bar pretty low for me. I factored in far more than two traits when I assessed for compatibility. No matter how attractive a man is, and I've turned down second, third dates, ended communication with conventionally good-looking men who weren't my idea of a compatible match. I've also dated several average-looking men, or the kind most wouldn't notice, because they were very compatible, and I was attracted to them.
Physical attraction is an important component for many people. I'd imagine even for you. Are you down with the homely ladies? Do you expect to find the woman you want to date physically attractive, or do you just not care?
And just having some similar interests and shared sense of humor does not necessarily translate to relationship compatibility. That's setting the bar pretty low for me. I factored in far more than two traits when I assessed for compatibility. No matter how attractive a man is, and I've turned down second, third dates, ended communication with conventionally good-looking men who weren't my idea of a compatible match. I've also dated several average-looking men, or the kind most wouldn't notice, because they were very compatible, and I was attracted to them.
Your first point is exactly what I said so I don't know what your trying to argue..
As for your other point of course but a connection and getting along well along with physical attractiveness is usually enough to at least get a few dates and want to see if compatibility is there.
Sometimes when you know someone awhile you can't help it when you connect with them emotionally that's enough to catch feelings and love somebody even if they don't check off every box.
Yep. Do not take the approach of, "No one will want me until I have this career, this weight, this car," etc ...
As far as the "you will meet a great woman someday..." line ...
People use all kinds of brush-off lines, but I firmly believe that when a woman takes the time to say, "You will find a great woman someday ..." they feel like you have potential. It's not a total brush-off or sugar coating. It means you aren't the one for them, but you have some baseline qualities that will bring you success with the right person.
Yes, the talk of "leagues" seems to fit here, but I also firmly believe that people do not NEED to stay in their own leagues. It's the whole "shoot for the moon because even if you fail you'll land among the stars ..." cheesy kind of approach. You might as well try because you never really do know who you will connect with.
Good points. On the league comment, I agree when someone is interested in a particular person who has a ton going for them. Why not take a shot? But I think sometimes people habitually pursue people who might be pretty unattainable in an effort to prove something, if only to themselves. Something like "If I could get a girl/guy like that, it would mean/prove/show......" This approach isn't much about the individual person, so much as what they represent, and it can also blind someone to real attainable people.
I always wonder about whether this is part of the issue in patterns of romantic challenges such as the one described here.
Thank you all for the feedback. Some more info, to help put things in better perspective.
1) I am no one to speak to whether or not I am super handsome, physically attractive or whatever. I think I'm okay looking and have been told I am cute, FWIW. I have lost most of my hair though, and I shave my head now.
As far as physique, I am 5'9 and in average shape, just very slightly overweight but not all that outwardly noticeable. That's something I have full control in to change and I am working on - not just to attract women but for myself, health and fitness-wise.
2) Confidence has previously been an issue, but has improved a good bit over the years.
3) I know for a fact that I do not have alpha male characteristics, which again lends in to the lack of confidence issue.
4) I do not typically remain hung up on the woman post-rejection/friendzone... it did happen a couple of times maybe, but generally, no. I either distance myself or completely cut off, if there is no other connection (as in if no mutual friends etc)
5) I remain perplexed over what is nice, too nice of a guy, etc. I also get more perplexed by the "you will meet someone great someday" line, which mostly may just be a nice way of them to brush me off vs. a genuine remark of how I am as a person.
2 and 3 are the main reasons why you keep getting friendzoned. You gotta work on that. You're a guy, so you need to give off male characteristics to get women.
2 and 3 are the main reasons why you keep getting friendzoned. You gotta work on that. You're a guy, so you need to give off male characteristics to get women.
Agreed on 2. It has improved since before for sure, and I continue to work on it.
Physical attraction is an important component for many people. I'd imagine even for you. Are you down with the homely ladies? Do you expect to find the woman you want to date physically attractive, or do you just not care?
And just having some similar interests and shared sense of humor does not necessarily translate to relationship compatibility. That's setting the bar pretty low for me. I factored in far more than two traits when I assessed for compatibility. No matter how attractive a man is, and I've turned down second, third dates, ended communication with conventionally good-looking men who weren't my idea of a compatible match. I've also dated several average-looking men, or the kind most wouldn't notice, because they were very compatible, and I was attracted to them.
Yes physical attraction is important to me, but I also think attraction is relative. I find myself attracted to different sorts of woman, not all of whom are "hot" or "sexy" or "really pretty" or whatever you want to call it. To give some baseline expectations that I have:
1) No issues with race/ethnicity - I am open.
2) Height is not an issue at all.
3) Body type - average to above average. Not very attracted to larger women.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homina12
A couple of things. If a woman you fancy (tee hee) offers friendship, and you see no basis for a friendship, meaning you have nothing in common, then you likely had little basis for a relationship. That doesn't address your concern directly, but if you're hitting on women you wouldn't want as a friend, then you may be hitting on the wrong women.
Women can be wonderful friends. They're people, and often interesting people with different perspectives than many men have. This notion that a man should flounce off if his romantic offer is rejected is just kind of sad. Everyone loses. Although it shouldn't be your primary motivation, a man having women friends is also kind of attractive, at least to well adjusted women who aren't threatened by it.
Otherwise, the advice here seems on target. I'd add that if you have a trusted friend you could approach about this, someone who sees you in action, you might want to ask what you could do differently. I assume that you've taken an honest look at yourself in this regard and you're still baffled, but if you haven't yet, then do that. Even people whose attractiveness could best be described as unconventional or modest find partners, unless they're doing something that could be changed for the better that's serving as an obstacle.
Everyone loses? I don't think the woman who rejects loses much if anything. I only see the man taking the L since he doesn't get what he wants.
And I feel like I say this crap again, I have female friends who I have purely platonic relationships with. So I'm not anti-women, just anti-BS.
I hear you on most of your points, except for the bolded one. What I meant to say was, I dont consider myself anyone to speak for my own looks, whether how good-looking or otherwise I am -- only because I find that vain, arrogant and even awkward.
That's what I meant to say - not that I am worth speaking to at all in general; I know that I am worthy enough of talking to otherwise lol, generally speaking I mean. I carry conversations pretty well with most people and have a decent social circle so it's not like I am a loner or miserable in that way.
Meh -- I misunderstood.
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