Women: How much of the "old school" mannerisms of going on a date do you like? (kissing, call)
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I typically like to pay if I've done the inviting. I don't mind offering to split, or pay, if she did the inviting, but I also try to recognize when a woman wants to pay, as well as why.
I've had a couple of women become downright belligerent about paying, and not because I pressed the matter; rather, because they just went this route.
Those were taken as signals that this wasn't considered a date, which was fine. I've no need to date anyone that on-edge about something like social graces and courtesies.
It's funny, but with regard to paying it's never crossed my mind that any woman "owed" me because I paid for a meal or an outing. That's just dumb. It would be like serving me with alimony papers because we made out once.
Yes. My main thing was always that however it went, I didn't want it to be awkward.
I'd often say, "Hey, I don't mind splitting the check if you want, paying my own way. It's cool."
Him: "Oh, no, I've got this" (or something like that.)
Me: "Are you sure?"
Him: "Yeah!"
And that is that. If I'm inviting a guy someplace pricey with every intention of paying, I'll say that upfront. "Hey, I just got a raise and I want to celebrate, want to come to McSnob's for some fancy elf food? I'll pay!" (I'm trying and failing to come up with funny names for imaginary fancy restaurants here.)
The man I have been with for over 2 years, we always pay our own way unless one of us is specifically offering to treat the other. But on a first date, the prime directive is, "let's not make this any more awkward than it already is." lol
Agree with nald that if a woman doesn't like you, then opening the door or doing nice gestures will not get you "points."
Also, if the only reason you are nice to me is that you hope to get points and that I'll be willing to be with you, even if I don't like anything else about you...like "Well, he looks and smells homeless, but gosh he opened the door for me, so off go the panties!" that is not gonna work. You do have to be more than just basically nice. For some people looks or money might work. For me, you have to be smart, mature, wise, and frankly just a little bit sadistic, among other things. Different people, different priorities.
Oh, and...
...if a man has a condescending attitude, no amount of door opening, chair pulling, or lawn mowing will get him anywhere with me, or with most women.
Were women supposed to abandon all critical thinking and swoon because a dude pulled a chair out from the table at a restaurant on the first date? Just...lol...what?
.........
With regard to who pays.
I have known exactly one woman who was on online dating for the single purpose of getting men to buy her meals. She was a drug addict. I did not like her.
When I was dating, I always offered to split the bill and pay for my own food, it was truly no big deal. Sometimes a man would let me pay my own way, and sometimes he would insist on paying. It made no difference as to whether he got laid or got a second date or anything of the sort. I have also, after getting to know a man and knowing that he had financial difficulties and I did not, paid for HIS meal on dates, or once when I had money to burn and wanted to eat at a nice place, and I specifically contacted a guy, asked him out, and offered to pay. I'd just gotten a bonus at work or something, I can't recall...point is, if I suggested a pricey restaurant, I will be prepared to pay for us both. And about the only time I care if a man pays and prefer that he does, is if he suggests a pricey place. I don't think it is good manners to put someone in the position of having to say, "my budget is tight until payday and I can't really do the steak place right now...can we go to the ol' bar & grill instead please?" If you wanna eat at the Chez Ritz FruFru then be prepared to pay, I figure.
So with all of this, I really wish guys would look at it more as a matter of manners and etiquette, rather than "what works to win the game and get the girl." Because, clumsily stated or not, nald is correct that if she doesn't want you, she doesn't want you, and none of this will change her mind.
However, if she is a "maybe leaning toward yes" already, bad behavior could make it a "no" and good behavior could make it a "yes."
Just be nice to people, not to try and game them and get what you want, but just because it's nice. If that offends them, then they're stupid and you dodged a bullet. But it's not likely that it will.
You are pulling my words out of context so I'll be up-front and short this time about #1 - so many people claim they want some specific profile of a person, but that's not true. What they want is completely opposite of what they truly want or filter for, whether they want to admit it or not.
Second part - I see no "critical thinking" in going with the fact that looks are critical and possibly the biggest factor one bases their preferences. That's what I was aiming for.
My post is generally focused on the my perception that OP seemingly wants to know whether "old school mannerisms" (whatever norms he refers to in his own place) will affect woman's opinion in any way towards "desirable outcome", i.e. that she'll be more likely to date him and see him as a long-term partner. My take is that it won't and that's the major thing that any guy needs to remember. Paying for a date, playing the role of a mutual entertainer, driving a woman to and from a date post - none of it matters when it comes to attraction in America. In fact, when one removes woman's investment other than time, she'll be more likely to go out on dates even when she's not really interested, but bored and want to test the waters.
And that's the key part, especially for people in America who are highly sought after - whether men or women.... the key factor is physical attraction or physical looks and it physical attraction (physical looks) literally has none or small drawback potential in terms of "sour grapes" effect. Physical looks as a primary factor are also praised, encouraged and promoted not just by society, but by friends, parents, media, etc. Compare and contrast with perceived shallowness when one places money/career first.... hypocrisy at its finest. Money itself (or any other factor that is generally seen as a plus) is generally far more likely to generate the "sour grapes" effect than the physical looks department and one needs to be very much aware of it in order to avoid his/her money getting in the way. This is true for both men and women, despite the fact that it definitely is seen as a big plus for anyone.
So, the "good manners" story is definitely busted. "Following tradition and stuff" will generally make you more likeable/cute, but that's it, if you are below their minimum threshold then it won't matter... in fact, you might even be seen as annoying, a creep or a weirdo because if any of your actions are perceived as "hitting on someone" when this someone doesn't want YOUR ATTENTION, but is open to attention from someone else. Plus, if you are in the gray area, paying or not paying for date doesn't matter either - it just forces a woman to be more invested from a beginning and thus she must make up her mind in a shorter period of time. She'll be more prone to try to "scan" for other critical and major factors that she appreciates in a shorter period of time. These factors may push your up or down on that gray scale between "dateable and "non-dateable" guy, NOT whether you paid for a date or not, whether you bought her a gift or not, etc. This is a general rule about dating in America.
Oh and by the way.... I never talked about being hostile in any manner. Being hostile means that you are definitely going towards the "unwanted outcome", unless you actually wanted to sabotage your chances and possibly cause some drama as well. This will also be far more likely to induce the "sour grapes" effect and mutual hostility than anything else.
Regardless of the "paying scenario", nobody likes the hostile behavior in terms of any (non)actions. Politeness is definitely a minimum that everyone expects and this is why overwhelming majority of people will act nice even if they aren't nice persons at all.
Oh and, by the way... paying for someone isn't about being polite. Acting hostile or provoking a hostile reaction fails to meet any minimum of social behavior and it definitely becomes an overkill if the other party is expected to pay for such date.
We keep our Christmas decorations in the attic above our garage. When we take them down every year, my wife’s car gets parked outside. Her car was outside a couple of weeks ago and it was raining one morning. When I left for work, I backed my car out and put hers in the garage so she wouldn’t get wet. I can’t believe that anyone would have a problem with this.
I gas her car up every week too. It’s just being considerate and showing her love.
Personally I love chivalrous guys. I don't get women who are insulted if a guy opens the door for them or offers to lift a heavy object. I think it's nice.
Personally I love chivalrous guys. I don't get women who are insulted if a guy opens the door for them or offers to lift a heavy object. I think it's nice.
I love it as well and can't understand why it would create hostility from women. In my opinion this is done out of respect, not because we are weak or incapable. Opening doors, paying for dinner, helping with a heavy bag, offering your coat... someone mentioned standing when a woman is approaching which I LOVE and find so sweet and respectful. When I was a smoker years ago I loved when a man would light my cigarette for me. Chivalrous acts will help a man stand out from others who don't care to model these qualities.
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