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I know a lot of men who are deeply loved by their wives for who they are.
You're talking to a woman who broke up with a rich (and good looking) man, to form a long term relationship instead with a man who makes about 2/3 as much money as I do. He isn't the kind of man to grace a GQ cover, but in my eyes he is glorious and sexy. Because of who he is. I would choose no other.
I also know a lot of men who deeply love their wives for who they are, not just for what they look like.
I know that saying a man's love is only about looks and sex appeal is false, it was intended to speak to how both men and women can question the nature of love coming from the opposite side, but you seem to have missed the point.
I would say if a man is having trouble getting a woman to love him for who he is:
a.) He is choosing his partners poorly.
b.) He does not love himself, and so doubts even the most real love in the world could possibly be directed at him, he denies it and calls it a lie even when it is true, until the giver of it surrenders and stops trying to convince him.
or
c.) "Who he is" is just not really that lovable. (Hard to get someone to love you for who you are, if you're a jerk. Just sayin'.)
But in mine, everyone I know works and WANTS to work... they hustle. Many actually work jobs most of us would cringe to work. Those that are SAHM are also working too. You can either contribute to the household financially (primary earner of the household) or through labor (raising children, household duties) or a combination of both.
Chris Rock’s newest comedy special features a quote that creates a little debate.
I’m not a big fan of Chris Rock but I think there is a bit of truth in this saying. As a man about to finish his master’s degree, not many are impressed when I say I supervise a call center for a living. Many think I’m working below my potential but 10 years ago people thought I would be in jail so whatever. However, I know I’m not making the bread that is going to make women that excited. Since the gender role of provider has long existed, let’s face it a man who ain’t paying the bills is not going to find or keep love easily.
Agree C-D?
No. Anybody who gets their relationship insight from comedians deserves what he gets.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa
I find it amazing that so many people don't seem to want to work. That's what this thread is about right? Men want society to accept and embrace their choice to be non-contributing members?
The point of my OP is that society doesn’t consider a man to be dating-wise if he cannot provide financially. Women typically don’t encounter that same pressure and expectation to provide financially. That is what it is about.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
26,699 posts, read 41,737,988 times
Reputation: 41381
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
No. Anybody who gets their relationship insight from comedians deserves what he gets.
I don’t know about relationship insight and I know he and Steve Harvey (another comedian with a lot to say on relationships) are just comedians. But some truth is said in jest sometimes. I’m just saying there is a hint in “I love him so much more after he went broke”....said no one ever.
The point of my OP is that society doesn’t consider a man to be dating-wise if he cannot provide financially. Women typically don’t encounter that same pressure and expectation to provide financially. That is what it is about.
No. It's what you choose to read. You have some serious issues about money and women, both together and separately. "Society" doesn't send you email or call you up and tell you what it expects.
Again, there are millions of guys who work at McDonald's and WalMart who are dating, married, have FWBs, you name it.
I oversaw young men (some not so young) who made $10 an hour, in Hawaii. They ALL had GFs or were married. Most were not even close to the general description of good looking.
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The point of my OP is that society doesn’t consider a man to be dating-wise if he cannot provide financially. Women typically don’t encounter that same pressure and expectation to provide financially. That is what it is about.
I think this is a lingering stereotype, that's somewhat obsolete, at least in certain circles. There are a lot of guys out there, and have been for a couple of generations or more, who are making enough to cover their expenses, with some left over to save for retirement, a modest vacation now and then, and maybe that's about it. Yet they meet women who are ok with that; women who are on their level, and for whom that's normal. If they get along really well, they combine households to save on expenses a bit, which may give them enough to raise a child. They budget carefully, and manage to make a go of it.
There are other women out there, who are looking for providers. There are still other women out there, who are in a position to be the main provider, and they're ok with that. There's tremendous variety out in the world. The trick is to find a good fit. It's easier said than done, for a lot of people. But that doesn't mean that everyone is of the same mindset, with the same priorities in a partner. It just means that finding a good match tends to be a challenge. This is not news.
I don’t know about relationship insight and I know he and Steve Harvey (another comedian with a lot to say on relationships) are just comedians. But some truth is said in jest sometimes. I’m just saying there is a hint in “I love him so much more after he went broke”....said no one ever.
You've really got to abandon this transactional view of relationships. It seems to be a consistent theme with you, namely, "I give this while you give that." That is so not how a healthy relationship works.
Women are attracted to men with purpose, not a paycheck, and certainly not overgrown boys. To be sure, there's always going to be the odd golddigger out there, just the same as there's always going to be the man whose main interest in a woman is her cup size. Yet, I've seen plenty of long, happy, successful marriages where the wife outearns the husband, often substantially. As long as the husband is contributing some way or another to the household, it really doesn't matter in the eyes of most. Some years I make more than my wife. Some years she makes more than me. We don't keep score.
We have a friend who went through a divorce a couple of years ago. She and her husband were both lawyers. About ten years ago, the husband suddenly got tired of being a lawyer and quit. He started out taking the kids to school and soccer practice and the whatnot, but he stopped even doing that. So while she was busting her ass at her job as a corporate attorney, she'd have to come home and clean the house, cook, and do all the other domestic work. How did Barry spend his days? It's a mystery to everyone.
Finally, she couldn't take it anymore and filed for divorce. "Oh, you DO have a breaking point," was all my wife said.
You've really got to abandon this transactional view of relationships. It seems to be a consistent theme with you, namely, "I give this while you give that." That is so not how a healthy relationship works.
Women are attracted to men with purpose, not a paycheck, and certainly not overgrown boys. To be sure, there's always going to be the odd golddigger out there, just the same as there's always going to be the man whose main interest in a woman is her cup size. Yet, I've seen plenty of long, happy, successful marriages where the wife outearns the husband, often substantially. As long as the husband is contributing some way or another to the household, it really doesn't matter in the eyes of most. Some years I make more than my wife. Some years she makes more than me. We don't keep score.
We have a friend who went through a divorce a couple of years ago. She and her husband were both lawyers. About ten years ago, the husband suddenly got tired of being a lawyer and quit. He started out taking the kids to school and soccer practice and the whatnot, but he stopped even doing that. So while she was busting her ass at her job as a corporate attorney, she'd have to come home and clean the house, cook, and do all the other domestic work. How did Barry spend his days? It's a mystery to everyone.
Finally, she couldn't take it anymore and filed for divorce. "Oh, you DO have a breaking point," was all my wife said.
Men aren't used to the SAHD role, so some don't do well with the lack of structure in the day. IMO, she shouldn't have pitched in at home; that's really too much. How hard is it to run a vacuum cleaner, buy the groceries and pick up a cooked chicken while you're at it, and make a salad for dinner, along with a pot of rice? Did he even know how to cook? Did she share some easy cooking tips with him? We all have to learn somehow; even many women end up teaching themselves how to cook, because their parents didn't teach them. It's a learning curve for many people.
Granted, we don't know what steps she took to try to address the overall issue with him, and how willing he was to work on it. But that seems like a shame. Though, going by some of the OP's we've had here, it's not all that uncommon for men to get lost in the lack of structure as a SAHD.
Men aren't used to the SAHD role, so some don't do well with the lack of structure in the day. IMO, she shouldn't have pitched in at home; that's really too much. How hard is it to run a vacuum cleaner, buy the groceries and pick up a cooked chicken while you're at it, and make a salad for dinner, along with a pot of rice? Did he even know how to cook? Did she share some easy cooking tips with him? We all have to learn somehow; even many women end up teaching themselves how to cook, because their parents didn't teach them. It's a learning curve for many people.
Granted, we don't know what steps she took to try to address the overall issue with him, and how willing he was to work on it. But that seems like a shame. Though, going by some of the OP's we've had here, it's not all that uncommon for men to get lost in the lack of structure as a SAHD.
My wife is super type A.
When she managed people at work: Type A. Got her MBA, etc.
Now as a SAHM, the type A marches on in the form of schedules and to-do lists.
You do have to create your own structure, but I can see from her example taking your drive for excellence and getting crap done to any venue you want.
It's still a job and should be taken just as seriously. Maybe that's where the breakdown happens for other people who don't realize it's work, a lot of work, and should be treated just like you are at the office.
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dating-wise if he cannot provide financially. Women typically don’t encounter that same pressure and expectation to provide financially. That is what it is about.
