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I agree. On the flip side, once you have a relationship, someone can become disabled. Cant walk from an injury or whatever. They may generate a good income, they may not. Would it be fair for their partner to leave them now when they needs them most because they cant get the things they want so readily anymore, or at least do 50% of everything?
Nope! If the person is doing his/her best within his/her abilities. Because it isn't about literally "what" the person can do "for" the other person in this way. It's about the personality, the style that meshes or not. So IOW, as the poster above was saying about not wanting a "bum," that's about drive and about what's important to the person, not the exact amount of money.
I can't work outside the home right now as my children have disabilities and childcare for them is prohibitive. It would sink us. I'd pretty much be paying more for care than I'd bring in once taxes are figured in. So I work from home. If my decision had been "well then, I just can't attempt to bring in an income, even though when my husband met me, I was career and support-minded - so I'll just not seek any other work avenues and will instead become this completely different person than I was before," that would be a fail on my part. So I freelance from home. I work several hours a day, then when the kids are home, I take care of them and do the homework with them, clean the house, and keep appointments. I am also going to school. If I DIDN'T feel like doing those things my husband might think differently of me, and with good reason, IMO.
It's not necessarily about dollars and cents when a person (in the case of this thread, a woman, apparently) says she wants a man who has a job and is serious in some way about his job. It's about the intent, the personality, and whether there's motivation there or not. And again...I definitely see this for both genders, at least when they are looking for some sort of equal partnership rather than a visual trophy or a bank.
Chris Rock’s newest comedy special features a quote that creates a little debate.
I’m not a big fan of Chris Rock but I think there is a bit of truth in this saying. As a man about to finish his master’s degree, not many are impressed when I say I supervise a call center for a living. Many think I’m working below my potential but 10 years ago people thought I would be in jail so whatever. However, I know I’m not making the bread that is going to make women that excited. Since the gender role of provider has long existed, let’s face it a man who ain’t paying the bills is not going to find or keep love easily.
Agree C-D?
I disagree. Even if a man meets the condition that he provides something, he is not loved.
I've only read the first comment by Dissenter, so apologies if these points have been made. I think in our culture, it's perfectly understandable for a man to feel this way. I agree that it's pretty easy to refute this as a fact, but feelings aren't facts and they don't require incontrovertible factual support. It's like women feeling they have to be extremely thin to be thought attractive. Evidence to the contrary is abundant, but there's a lot of cultural noise about being thin and that noise can drown out reason.
This crap is insidious in it's impact. Most of us don't walk around consciously thinking that we need to be just so to be acceptable, but I think so many of us have this nagging, just below the surface feeling that we're not enough in some way. That feeling then attaches to some specific, like income or attractiveness or body type or status. Some people are mostly immune to this, but they're rare. Those who are immune typically aren't any sort of ideal; they just don't feel any need to be.
And a greater percentage in service industries, which IS busting one's ass.
So your assertions aren't translating to guys not "being able to" not work; many fit that description...actually, slightly more men than women fit that description. No matter what they are "called."
You're missing the point. They DON"T have to work and are not looked down upon when they CHOOSE not to work. Again, privilege, please check it
I've only read the first comment by Dissenter, so apologies if these points have been made. I think in our culture, it's perfectly understandable for a man to feel this way. I agree that it's pretty easy to refute this as a fact, but feelings aren't facts and they don't require incontrovertible factual support. It's like women feeling they have to be extremely thin to be thought attractive. Evidence to the contrary is abundant, but there's a lot of cultural noise about being thin and that noise can drown out reason.
This crap is insidious in it's impact. Most of us don't walk around consciously thinking that we need to be just so to be acceptable, but I think so many of us have this nagging, just below the surface feeling that we're not enough in some way. That feeling then attaches to some specific, like income or attractiveness or body type or status. Some people are mostly immune to this, but they're rare. Those who are immune typically aren't any sort of ideal; they just don't feel any need to be.
Feeling this way - that's a good point.
I am a woman and I feel very "useless" if I'm not bringing in an income. I simply can not do it. Period. Even if we "could" financially do it I can't bring myself to just not work/make money in addition to taking care of the household. Just the way I was raised (not just my family but in a larger way, could this at all be geographical? Anyway...). So that's pressure I put on myself.
I came of age in the 80s. We women (well, girls then, I guess) were raised to be strong and to work and give our own lives direction, and not rely on someone else to "give" us a life. We were supposed to be equals, not you-know-what busters but just...equals. As in, each partner brings his or her own personality and abilities to the relationship and then you mesh. Nobody "uses" anybody else. I find it amazing that some people TODAY still feel this way, if they are young. In my age group it was a "thing," it was newer; but today, people of both sexes work (nearly equally) and both sexes go to school (girls right now a bit more than guys). But still if someone is in a very old-fashioned environment I can understand that pressure that "seems" to come from everybody else...even though really it's more internal.
You're missing the point. They DON"T have to work and are not looked down upon when they CHOOSE not to work. Again, privilege, please check it
Sure we are. If we sit around, don't contribute financially even though we could, and our husbands are put-upon? Oh YES we are "looked down on." You have no idea of the subtleties and the guilt and pressure applied here as you aren't a woman. Yes, we are judged, and harshly, in any number of circumstances but also this one...for sure.
And yes, a significant percentage of the nation has to work, male and female. Has to, as in, they don't eat otherwise. Reality, please check it.
You're missing the point. They DON"T have to work and are not looked down upon when they CHOOSE not to work. Again, privilege, please check it
They aren't?
I'd beg to differ.
Maybe you and I run in different circles, but anyone who doesn't have a full time occupation being of use to others in my world (and it's been this way since childhood) is VERY MUCH looked down on. Male or female.
In fact, the women are generally held to a much high standard after marriage because they better have a slamming job AND they are usually the ones who have to keep the whole household running.
Nope! If the person is doing his/her best within his/her abilities. Because it isn't about literally "what" the person can do "for" the other person in this way. It's about the personality, the style that meshes or not. So IOW, as the poster above was saying about not wanting a "bum," that's about drive and about what's important to the person, not the exact amount of money.
I can't work outside the home right now as my children have disabilities and childcare for them is prohibitive. It would sink us. I'd pretty much be paying more for care than I'd bring in once taxes are figured in. So I work from home. If my decision had been "well then, I just can't attempt to bring in an income, even though when my husband met me, I was career and support-minded - so I'll just not seek any other work avenues and will instead become this completely different person than I was before," that would be a fail on my part. So I freelance from home. I work several hours a day, then when the kids are home, I take care of them and do the homework with them, clean the house, and keep appointments. I am also going to school. If I DIDN'T feel like doing those things my husband might think differently of me, and with good reason, IMO.
It's not necessarily about dollars and cents when a person (in the case of this thread, a woman, apparently) says she wants a man who has a job and is serious in some way about his job. It's about the intent, the personality, and whether there's motivation there or not. And again...I definitely see this for both genders, at least when they are looking for some sort of equal partnership rather than a visual trophy or a bank.
Its great you can handle all that, JerZ.
I would add that I don't think its always possible to be a complete 50% partner, but I think when people love each other, that's okay. Sometimes one partner can become the wind beneath the other partners wings. They may not look like they are doing much from someone looking outside - in, but they are providing the means for their partner to soar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky1975
You're missing the point. They DON"T have to work and are not looked down upon when they CHOOSE not to work. Again, privilege, please check it
I'm not following. Unless we are all living off trust funds, everyone has to work. If I meet a man that pays my bills for everything I want, and has a complete house staff to do all our chores. Wow! Lucky me!
BUT! I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen all that often in real life.
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