Men needing/wanting space? (marrying, girls, single, younger)

[JrzDefector]

Men aren't the only ones that need space. Women are just not culturally conditioned to ask for it. There's nothing wrong with politely asking for a little breathing room if constant togetherness isn't your thing.

[Sassybluesy]

Originally Posted by johnnybe

As to #1, above, what I discovered - far too late - about my wife is that she needs people around her ALL the time. I knew she needed friends but didn't know she needed to be with people EVERY day.

So while my wife doesn't need 24/7 with me she needs to be 24/7 with SOMEone, and since I'm the only one around most of the time where we live now, she is very unhappy here. Problem is - I think - she blames ME for "bringing her here". Yet she had every opportunity to tell me years ago before we bought this property, that it would not work for her, but she neglected to mention it. (Says she didn't realize...?)

So now I'm the one paying the price as we have to separate or divorce, but she'll be happy living with family members back home and I'll be stuck here by myself in my retirement.

And even introverts like myself do need to be around people some of the time! Just as I'm sure some extroverts need to have some "space" or be alone some of the time.

Moral of this thread, to me, is "Extreme extroverts should not marry introverts and extreme introverts should not marry extroverts!"

As mentioned above, yes, some couples can work this out, but I'm guessing most couples where there's one introvert and one extrovert have problems with this issue.
As you said above
"1) [Men or women needing/wanting space] are feeling suffocated. There are those, both men and women, who feel as if a relationship entails 24/7 togetherness. Any sane person in that kind of relationship would eventually chafe at this. ."

AMEN to that!

She may very well have not realized the degree of isolation she would feel.

[Chowhound]

Sort of an odd stream of consciousness thread, but I'll play along. I think sometimes people need time to deal with things, I don't think that it is just unique to men.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by Chowhound

Sort of an odd stream of consciousness thread, but I'll play along. I think sometimes people need time to deal with things, I don't think that it is just unique to men.

Yep. I love my husband to death, and yet I'm still very happy when he is gone for awhile, even better... overnight!!

I don't even know why besides the fact that I just enjoy the time alone.

[johnnybe]

I appreciate your comments and am not sure I can "argue" with them but I do want to respond and give my perspective in any case.

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

johnnybe, I think that you and your wife have a tragic case of incompatible needs, but I don't think that means that no pairing of intro/extro even if it's pretty extreme, can work out. People do however, have to be fairly self aware and not of the "agreeable" mindset trait where they go along with something, thinking they can hang, only to find out "Oh crud, this really does NOT work for me" only to be met by "Well it's too late now, you should have told me earlier" by their uncompromising partner. If no compromise can be made, then you will break up. And she will go do what she needs to do, and you'll be free to decide if you're staying out in the middle of nowhere alone, or doing something else.

Just to clarify I agree that some extrovert-with-introvert marriages may work, but with quite a bit of maneuvering and understanding of each other and compromise. But it's probably not the best idea for a marriage...

Also I am not an uncompromising partner, but at this time there is little we can do to change our living situation. She spent most of last year with her family because she couldn't stand it here. I asked her to come back and try again. She has gotten along better the past few months BUT there is still no warmth or affection from her so I don't see how it can work out under those circumstances. It seems to me she's not even interested in trying to rekindle our relationship to include warmth, affection or sex.

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

The fact that you're framing this as "I'll be stuck all alone out here" as though her tending to her mental health needs by making decisions for herself, is somehow victimizing you...that points to an issue that it would take me a while to explain fully. But the thing is, she does not exist to be an accessory or source to your happiness, she's got her own life to live. And so do you. When we place the responsibility for our emotional wellbeing entirely on another person's shoulders, even our spouse, we can be making a mistake that is fatal to relationships.

Fair enough. I do feel that a lot of this is on her and I'll tell you why.
a) she never told me not to buy this property, that she might not like living here.
b) there are some people nearby she could try to make friends with, she could try volunteering at the local school less than 1/2 a mile away (walking distance! though I'd be happy to take her and pick her up) but she won't try to make friends - to me it seems she doesn't want to even try to be happy here, she's unwilling to try.
c) I have always encouraged her to be more independent but it was easier when we lived in the city for her to take a bus when she wanted/needed to. She has a tendency to want me to do things for her instead of her learning to do things on her own and be more self-confident and self-sufficient. She was very "sheltered" when we got married 17 years ago and not very mature for her age (38)
d) she wants to be taken care of. I think that's really the only reason she's still with me, given that she seems to have no romantic interest in me or even much warmth or compassion. What other reason is there? My idea was to try to rekindle our relationship, which wasn't that bad until a year or so before we moved here. But it's as if moving here (or ?) just turned her completely off to me. I can only guess she's harboring resentment/anger towards me for moving here.

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

How about this, you knew she was an extrovert, surely, before you moved her to the middle of nowhere. Where was your consideration for your partner, then?

I knew she'd need to make friends nearby. I suggested that she could do that by volunteering at the school. She's a credentialed teacher but can't work here; but she likes teaching and being in that environment even as an assistant. I suggested she do various things to try to make some friends so she'd have people to hang out with and feel valued but she's resisted it. I cannot understand why she wouldn't try other than she "just doesn't want to live here", she wants to live where we used to live which I absolutely will not do and in fact cannot do economically.

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

I don't think that EITHER of you should beat themselves up for making a life choice that didn't turn out to be healthy and workable for you both, but you're trying too hard to put it all on her and wash your hands of any responsibility. That isn't how you fix things. Fixing things is in recognizing that it doesn't matter whose fault it is, there is a problem, and you can look for solutions, or you can sit there saying, "Well this is how it is, since it's not my fault you should shut up, smile, fulfill my needs, and deal with it. You made your bed, baby." Not very kind. Not an attitude that would fill me with desire for my partner, either. When a person feels that their partner will not budge from a self-centered position, that often makes them feel emotionally alienated, and then withdrawn from affection.

I think you have made some untrue assumptions here.
I have agreed to move. BUT we have to wait for a buyer of our house which could be up to a year or more. My idea is to move to a rural place where I can have some peace and quiet and nature but near a highway where she can learn to drive and drive to a job or ? whatever she wants to do.

This seems to have made her less unhappy here yet none of the warmth or affection towards me has returned and I get the feeling it will not. It's not me who is blaming her but her who is blaming me, it seems to me. Blaming me so much that she won't / can't even be warm or supportive or affectionate any more.

So this is making me feel like "If she can't or won't even try to rekindle her feelings for me (as if I've done something unforgivably wrong by moving here!) then what hope is there for our marriage?"

Now I feel that all she wants is to stay married to me so she'll have a place to live when we finally do move and someone to take care of her, provide for her etc., but in a place she'll like better. Looking back I have to wonder if maybe that's all it ever was for her: just wanting me to provide for and take care of her, help her do things that most adults can do for themselves but she can't or doesn't want to learn to...
It may not come through here on the internet but I honestly feel I've been a very good husband and I feel she IS being unfair in withdrawing her love/affection from me just because I hoped we could both be happy here in my retirement.

So while I would love to repair our marriage, it seems I am trying and willing but she is not. She's "here" with me but there is no love or warmth and certainly no sex...

So what would I get out of our continuing our marriage other than companionship? And even then there is a lot of bickering and other crap to deal with... Is it worth it to me? I doubt it.

I am too old to want to date again so I would end up alone... and honestly she might end up alone too, based on how many men really don't want a woman who doesn't like sex, is very dependent, not very mature, etc...

So breaking up our marriage is likely to be a bad situation for us both.

Seems to me we are both "damned if we do [break up] and damned if we don't".

[Marie Joseph]

DH and I have been happily married for 27 years and we both like to have our own "space" once in a while. It has nothing to do with not enjoying each other's company; personally I think it is a sign of a healthy and secure relationship for people to be able to spend some time away from their partner and enjoy it.

I enjoy the periodic business trip that takes me away from home for a night or two, and DH sometimes will absorb himself in one of his hobbies in another part of the house for a couple of days. We do many more activities together than we do separately but we always know when the other one wants some time alone.

DH likes to talk when he is upset or experiencing strong emotions. I am the opposite and take time to process it so he knows that I want to be alone for a while to work my feelings out as I hate to show emotion.

It works out very well for us

Space isn't a male concept; I'm the one who needs the most space in our marriage ::

[Sonic_Spork]

johnnybe:

Well, I do think it's odd and it would frustrate me, that she does not wish to try, or to learn to drive or do things for herself. I wonder what is underlying that? Could it be fear?

It is very hard to express this without it sounding like I'm insulting you, and I'm not trying to insult you, but I think you need to work on taking yourself out of it when trying to understand her behavior. Like if you're looking at for instance, she didn't want to learn to drive...you could assume it's because she wants you to take care of her (that is centered on YOU and your experience with her) or you could wonder if for some reason it scares her. Why would it? Well, I didn't learn to drive until I was 24, and the notion of learning was frightening to me. I would be revealing myself from a position of ignorance, with someone watching, for one thing, and for another, a car can kill people. If you have no experience with it, there can be reasons that this unknown is scary. I don't know that's the case with her, but I am suggesting that there could be reasons for her behavior that haven't got a lot to do with you.

You are seeing too much of who she is "in relation to you." Rather than just who she is, period, for reasons meaningful to her. You can't connect to her this way.

I suggest you give some thoughts to what your needs are in this relationship with her. Needs, the things without which it simply isn't worth it to you. Physical and sexual affection seems to be a big one. Then once you're clear that you need XYZ, then go to her and talk to her. But here's the thing, you need to ask her also to think about, and write down her NEEDS, things without which her life with you is not really sustainable. And you need to really hear her, and she needs to really hear you. If you are not both willing to work on those things to get needs met for one another, then you really should part ways. If you are genuinely willing to work on this stuff, I can point you in the right direction to fix the sex issue. Because contrary to what many men (especially "me-centered" mindsets) believe, women rarely withhold sex and affection out of sheer perverse desire to punish a man, or because they just aren't attracted anymore, or anything like that. There is a book that could really help you understand what is going on with her, and work towards fixing things--IF she is sincerely willing to-- It is called "Come As You Are" by Emily Nagoski. They've got it on Amazon. Seriously this book will help. If both of you want to try, do not give up the fight without both of you at least reading it.

I get the sense that both of you are having a classic argument, that basically consists of, "Me, me, me!" "Yes, I know, but what about me, me, ME!" "Right, but me!" No one is hearing the other, because each of you are focused on building this defensive fortress, that shuts the other out, with your building blocks of frustration and resentment, and only slinging stones of your own unhappiness at each other from atop your emotional battlements. "You brought me out here!" "I know, but you don't give me affection anymore!" "I know, but how can I feel like sex if I'm always so unhappy!?" "I know but you don't even try!" Etc. It seems rather adversarial.

And believe me. She will find someone, after you. Unfortunately her tendency to let herself (or make herself) dependent on a man this way, means she may likely find herself with an abuser, since abusers love dependent women; it's harder for them to leave when they're being abused. It's a sad thing, she really should work on that. But she will have a sex drive again, too, unless she has physiological reasons for lacking one now, and I'm guessing not. I'm guessing it's because the two of you have a broken emotional connection and it's hitting her "brakes." I'm not sure if or when you would find someone new, but she probably will within a few months, tops, if you break up.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by JrzDefector

Men aren't the only ones that need space. Women are just not culturally conditioned to ask for it. There's nothing wrong with politely asking for a little breathing room if constant togetherness isn't your thing.

I tell my DH when I need some quiet time and I go off to the bedroom with a book.

[johnnybe]

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

johnnybe:

Well, I do think it's odd and it would frustrate me, that she does not wish to try, or to learn to drive or do things for herself. I wonder what is underlying that? Could it be fear?

It is very hard to express this without it sounding like I'm insulting you, and I'm not trying to insult you, but I think you need to work on taking yourself out of it when trying to understand her behavior. Like if you're looking at for instance, she didn't want to learn to drive...you could assume it's because she wants you to take care of her (that is centered on YOU and your experience with her) or you could wonder if for some reason it scares her. Why would it? Well, I didn't learn to drive until I was 24, and the notion of learning was frightening to me. I would be revealing myself from a position of ignorance, with someone watching, for one thing, and for another, a car can kill people. If you have no experience with it, there can be reasons that this unknown is scary. I don't know that's the case with her, but I am suggesting that there could be reasons for her behavior that haven't got a lot to do with you.

You are seeing too much of who she is "in relation to you." Rather than just who she is, period, for reasons meaningful to her. You can't connect to her this way.

I suggest you give some thoughts to what your needs are in this relationship with her. Needs, the things without which it simply isn't worth it to you. Physical and sexual affection seems to be a big one. Then once you're clear that you need XYZ, then go to her and talk to her. But here's the thing, you need to ask her also to think about, and write down her NEEDS, things without which her life with you is not really sustainable. And you need to really hear her, and she needs to really hear you. If you are not both willing to work on those things to get needs met for one another, then you really should part ways. If you are genuinely willing to work on this stuff, I can point you in the right direction to fix the sex issue. Because contrary to what many men (especially "me-centered" mindsets) believe, women rarely withhold sex and affection out of sheer perverse desire to punish a man, or because they just aren't attracted anymore, or anything like that. There is a book that could really help you understand what is going on with her, and work towards fixing things--IF she is sincerely willing to-- It is called "Come As You Are" by Emily Nagoski. They've got it on Amazon. Seriously this book will help. If both of you want to try, do not give up the fight without both of you at least reading it.

I get the sense that both of you are having a classic argument, that basically consists of, "Me, me, me!" "Yes, I know, but what about me, me, ME!" "Right, but me!" No one is hearing the other, because each of you are focused on building this defensive fortress, that shuts the other out, with your building blocks of frustration and resentment, and only slinging stones of your own unhappiness at each other from atop your emotional battlements. "You brought me out here!" "I know, but you don't give me affection anymore!" "I know, but how can I feel like sex if I'm always so unhappy!?" "I know but you don't even try!" Etc. It seems rather adversarial.

And believe me. She will find someone, after you. Unfortunately her tendency to let herself (or make herself) dependent on a man this way, means she may likely find herself with an abuser, since abusers love dependent women; it's harder for them to leave when they're being abused. It's a sad thing, she really should work on that. But she will have a sex drive again, too, unless she has physiological reasons for lacking one now, and I'm guessing not. I'm guessing it's because the two of you have a broken emotional connection and it's hitting her "brakes." I'm not sure if or when you would find someone new, but she probably will within a few months, tops, if you break up.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at the book.

Yes she WILL Find someone but not someone who loves her and treats her as well as I do, even now. (even though I have resentment and anger towards her, I still treat her well; though I do get irritated and annoyed with her at times).

And without giving sex to her new man or giving it for awhile then stopping, as she did with me, how long will it last?Most men would dump her pretty quick.

Her sister went through 4 men in 4 years. I don't know for sure but I am betting it was the same m.o.: desperately look for someone to take care of her, she finds one, then he finds out she isn't into sex at all, then breaks up or divorces. (She married twice, lived with twice.)

And as you say, these type of women are prone to abusers of which I am NOT. Her sister was abused and it took her several years to get away, and she finally did with a restraining order and encouragement from my wife and me.

I feel that for many reasons, there is little hope for our marriage now, and that makes me very sad, but doesn't seem to make her that sad. What does that tell you/ me? I tell her I really don't want us to break up but it seems we're on that road, but she just seems to be in denial about it (or not care?)...

She will never read any book I ask her to read.
When we first started having the problem of her not wanting sex at all, I tried to get her to read Venus and Mars to understand how important sex is to men, and other differences between men and women. She refused to read it even though I practically begged her to. This was 12 years ago or so...

I also bought her a book on female sexuality that encouraged her to learn to masturbate etc. She wouldn't do that either. I tried to get her to read a couple other books over the years that I felt might help us understand each other and she just would not do it. Guess she hates reading self-help/psychology books! I beg her to explain to me what she's feeling or what is going on with her, and she just doesn't seem interested in knowing; or else she knows but won't say? I have no idea which it is... and she won't give me a clue.

She agreed to go to counseling with me years ago but then we could not afford it, and now even less so. But other than that she won't talk to me about what she is feeling, and gets angry if I try to talk to her about what is going on with her, why she turned off to me, what problems she may have with me, anything. She gets angry and says I'm pressuring her.

But I'm only telling her what I need which is to have some idea why she is no longer affectionate or warm towards me. She just repeats her mantra: "I don't know".

"But if you don't know, who does?" I ask her.
"I don't know" is all she ever says. And gets annoyed at me for asking...

Seems to me what she wants is to stay with me and have me take care of her, help her with things, yet doesn't want to give anything in return, just be like a roommate (and not a great roommate, either). A year or two ago after we moved here and had problems she told me she loves me but "like a brother". I said in that case we'll probably need to split up; I don't want or need a sister/roommate. But I thought I could rekindle our marriage...

I do want us to get back to where we were at least 3 years ago (even without the sex) when we used to get along and have fun together, at least, and like each other... because I do love her and care about her...

But also there's a lot of resentment on my part I know... so is it worth it to even try when she seems to only want to do what is convenient, which is just keep the status quo like roommates and not try to fix our marriage?

I'm beginning to think there's no hope...
We also bicker and disagree on almost everything any more...

But I'll look at the book and at least ask her to read it if it strikes me as useful...

The things she won't learn to do for herself are things like learn to use her smart phone or computer, buy things online, go to the dr. by herself, buy groceries without asking me for the 30h time which brand we buy or how many bananas etc... or remember the currency rate which is really quite easy to remember... I could list 50 things that any normal adult can do that she cannot or will not do. And she's not dumb, she's smart; but seems to select what to be smart or dumb about... and seems to want to remain child-like. Peter Pan syndrome I guess?

[Sonic_Spork]

Wow, johnnybe, that is very strange behavior. I mean, not wanting to learn those basic things like the phone or computer, even. I would have thought that someone in her situation would be online all day, reaching out, looking for other people to connect to.

Perhaps (well...almost definitely) this is a case of "projecting" too much on my part. But I lost my sex drive in my marriage, too. And my ex believed, as I did, that I just had no interest in it. With the clarity of hindsight, I can say that it was the connection particular to me and him that triggered that effect. It would be difficult for him to understand, because from his male perspective, your sex drive is part of who you are, right? If you don't want your partner, you must want someone else, or else you have no sex drive at all. For me it was more like, when my partner was someone I lost emotional trust and vulnerability for, and felt adversarial towards, I was not able to feel intimate with him anymore. I shut down and withdrew. My sex drive vanished into a safe, locked, dark place where I couldn't reach it anymore. Once I was out of that relationship where I felt emotionally unsafe, it came back with a vengeance. My present boyfriend and I can't get enough of each other!

So she is from another country? See, I really hesitate to give advice when it comes to people from other countries, because often the culture they come from has programmed code into their minds that is so different from anything I've experienced that I really just don't have a clue. She seems to be shying away from a lot of things, though, and if she is just plain unwilling to cooperate in making things any better... Her not knowing what's wrong and why she isn't interested in sex is not the real problem, her being unwilling to try to work on it or explore the issue or anything, IS the problem.

And her wanting someone to just take care of her like a child, with no expectation of anything in return, not even love or affection or happy times together... I mean, it's almost like she wants, not even a roommate, but a parent. She doesn't want to be an adult. Wow. That sucks, man. For both of you.