Alcoholics - have to shrug on this one (marry, statistics, 2013)

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by ellie

Ivory, I've often agreed with what you've posted in the past, and I'm pointing out where it seems you are. This relationship with your husband is over. You need to start getting ready to go. I've seen the moderation route. Doesn't work.

Based on what you've posted in this thread alone, you're wasting too much of your precious energy on someone who really and truly isn't ready to give up drinking. Just walk away. I know it's easier said than done, but do it. It's over. Sooner or later you'll agree, but it's already over.

Not until I"m sure one way or the other what my kids face when in their father's custody. If I leave, I'm either going to be comfortable the kids are in good hands when not with me or I'll be ready to grind him to mincemeat in court and take full custody of the kids. There's no in between here as the courts don't do what's best for the kids. They're into sharing kids between parents (a lousy arrangment for kids in the best of divorces and intolerable one in a bad divorce) as if they're a marital asset equally owned by both parents instead of people with their own needs.

We'll see. So far, he's been on very good behavior. We're just crossing the one year mark since reconciling so we'll see what happens as the honeymoon comes to an end. While I have a definite emotional investment, I'm, intellectually aware of the potential for failure.

My feelings are the same as yours on moderation. I really question the long term success rate as it really looks like someone not ready to give up a crutch and looks more like playing with fire instead of a solution. It's like letting a pyromaniac set little fires hoping it will stop their desire to let them get out of control.

[moonsavvy]

Originally Posted by Blondie621

What does that mean?

Oh it's just a little inside recovery joke, not meant to offend.

There is a 12 step program out there called alanon. It is open to anyone who feels their life has been affected by someone else's drinking. Most people who qualify for alanon feel that alcohol is not their problem so they never make it through the doors. But the doors are always open if you want to check it out, the program offers peace, serenity and a better life. (all my opinion of course)

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by moonsavvy

Oh it's just a little inside recovery joke, not meant to offend.

There is a 12 step program out there called alanon. It is open to anyone who feels their life has been affected by someone else's drinking. Most people who qualify for alanon feel that alcohol is not their problem so they never make it through the doors. But the doors are always open if you want to check it out, the program offers peace, serenity and a better life. (all my opinion of course)

I can see where alanon would have helped me if I'd gone when my husband was drinking daily and it was helpful during our separation, especially for the kids but now that he's having more like 1-3 a week, we're just not dealing with the issues we were before.

It's good for people who have losses to deal with or who are struggling with being second to alcohol in someone's life. There's been such a change in my husband since he sobered up that I'm just not there anymore.

[moonsavvy]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

I can see where alanon would have helped me if I'd gone when my husband was drinking daily and it was helpful during our separation, especially for the kids but now that he's having more like 1-3 a week, we're just not dealing with the issues we were before.

It's good for people who have losses to deal with or who are struggling with being second to alcohol in someone's life. There's been such a change in my husband since he sobered up that I'm just not there anymore.

With all due respect, I don't think you "worked" a program then. I haven't been around active drinking for a long time, it's not about the alcoholic it's about you regardless what the alcoholic is doing. If you dig deep and work a program you will find miracles, it's not there to help you "cope" it's there to help you live.

Much love to you, your husband and your children.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by moonsavvy

With all due respect, I don't think you "worked" a program then. I haven't been around active drinking for a long time, it's not about the alcoholic it's about you regardless what the alcoholic is doing. If you dig deep and work a program you will find miracles, it's not there to help you "cope" it's there to help you live.

Much love to you, your husband and your children.

No, it's about dealing with the issues you have to deal with when you're involved with an alcoholic or have been deeply hurt by one. You have it right that it's about me but it's about how I handle or deal with past hurt from contact with an alcoholic.

I was attending meetings when my husband decided to stop drinking and found that I had nothing to say anymore. I could relate to what others said but my story changed. When it was time for me to talk, it was more of a progress report while others talked about failures to deal with issues. It just changed when he stopped drinking.

I can see how alanon would have been invaluable while he was drinking daily. My aunt tried to get me to go about 4 years ago and I wish I had. Or maybe I don't. I probably would have left him instead of him leaving me and who knows if things would have played out like they did. It was the realization that the very thing he'd tried to pin on me (our daughter's issues) was his doing not mine that took him down to his knees. He tried hard to paint me as evil because of her issues. In his mind I'd created them. I could see them but didn't know where they came from or how to fix them so I struggled with her. When the truth came out in counseling we were all stunned. It's probably a good thing he wasn't living here at the time.

What I learned in alanon is the problem is his not mine. I have to deal with my life and let go of his issues. He has to deal with is issue. I can't make him and shouldn't try. Ultimatims don't work. I learned I needed to stop hiding the issue. Everyone who knew me was shocked at what came out during the divorce. I never spoke of it. They knew he drank but not what life was like with him. I learned that they pick their partners well. They can smell a codependent a mile away (I'm wondering if there is a link here as I met many women who had a bi-polar parent and a drinking husband in alanon. My father was bi-polar). It's my own codependency I have to take control of not his issue.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by moonsavvy

... it's not about the alcoholic it's about you regardless what the alcoholic is doing. If you dig deep and work a program you will find miracles, it's not there to help you "cope" it's there to help you live...

Right! Just came from a good meeting tonight. I don't know about you normies, but I learned that my current life at this very moment is a manifestation of my past choices and actions! Isn't this wonderful news? This states that I'm totally responsible for me! Yippee!

[lola8822]

brother in law is an alky....hardcore.....he uses it as a crutch. Maybe i'm twisted in my thinking but I think a disease is something that happens TO you...something that is out of your controll. Deciding to become an alcoholic is a decision that can be corrected.....ppl can break meth habits but some alcoholics can't stop drinking? IMO....anyone can do anything they want to do....it's all possible they just have to take responsibility and put in the hard work and do it.....

[McGowdog]

Being an alcoholic is NOT a DISEASE! AA and those who helped get it started never intended that!

The definition of it being a disease came later. I now see that the verbage is a big mistake. It's a spiritual malady that only a spiritual experience (spiritual awakening if you will) can conquer. You can't charge money for the recovery. Sorry folks.

Let's go back to what Dr. Silkworth said; It's a manifestation of an allergy. He said it requires moral pyschology to treat it, which is outside of a doctor's "synthetic knowledge". (see page iii of Doctor's Opinion)

WOW! This was an amazing Doctor! He liked to work with drunks back in 1934! Nobody liked to work with drunks! They lie! They cheat! They steal! They don't pay their bill. They smoke! They cuss! They don't recover! All very damaging stuff to a doctor's ego.

but some alcoholics can't stop drinking?

I don't know about this. The only alcoholic that "can't stop drinking" is the one who "cannot" or the one who "will not." Many more of the later. But the "cannot" is the one who is said to be "constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves." But even they "have a chance."

So what I think you can say is "No alcoholic can drink like normal men." No alcoholic can use alcohol safely. Science may perhaps one day "accomplish this", but we believe that this won't ever happen; not even Pfizer can do this. I believe they'll try.

It's an ALLERGY, ok? Can we use that term?

Here, I'll prove it for once and for all;

WHEN I DRINK ALCOHOL, I BREAK OUT.

I break out into handcuffs. I break out into socially unacceptable behavior.

Don't you people realize? You can't wrestle with the pig. You can, but you're only gonna get smelly, muddy, and tired. The pig enjoys it.

[moonsavvy]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

No, it's about dealing with the issues you have to deal with when you're involved with an alcoholic or have been deeply hurt by one. You have it right that it's about me but it's about how I handle or deal with past hurt from contact with an alcoholic.

I was attending meetings when my husband decided to stop drinking and found that I had nothing to say anymore. I could relate to what others said but my story changed. When it was time for me to talk, it was more of a progress report while others talked about failures to deal with issues. It just changed when he stopped drinking.

I can see how alanon would have been invaluable while he was drinking daily. My aunt tried to get me to go about 4 years ago and I wish I had. Or maybe I don't. I probably would have left him instead of him leaving me and who knows if things would have played out like they did. It was the realization that the very thing he'd tried to pin on me (our daughter's issues) was his doing not mine that took him down to his knees. He tried hard to paint me as evil because of her issues. In his mind I'd created them. I could see them but didn't know where they came from or how to fix them so I struggled with her. When the truth came out in counseling we were all stunned. It's probably a good thing he wasn't living here at the time.

What I learned in alanon is the problem is his not mine. I have to deal with my life and let go of his issues. He has to deal with is issue. I can't make him and shouldn't try. Ultimatims don't work. I learned I needed to stop hiding the issue. Everyone who knew me was shocked at what came out during the divorce. I never spoke of it. They knew he drank but not what life was like with him. I learned that they pick their partners well. They can smell a codependent a mile away (I'm wondering if there is a link here as I met many women who had a bi-polar parent and a drinking husband in alanon. My father was bi-polar). It's my own codependency I have to take control of not his issue.

hmmmm sounds like your meetings lacked any "real recovery". I wish I could take you to a few really good meetings that I have found much recovery in. Regardless, it sounds like you have the basic idea, now you need the Miracle! If you ever had a sponsor you may want to contact her, just a thought.

Louis (Bill's wife) didn't even start alanon until after Bill finally got sober. The spouses of the recovering alcoholics realized that while their husband's were getting better (happier), they weren't!! Alanon is not a coping program, it's the blueprint back to sanity. Much love to you Sweetheart, I wish you the best.

[moonsavvy]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

Right! Just came from a good meeting tonight. I don't know about you normies, but I learned that my current life at this very moment is a manifestation of my past choices and actions! Isn't this wonderful news? This states that I'm totally responsible for me! Yippee!

That's great. Did they teach you anything about putting the toilet seat back down, or taking the garbage out?
Actually I don't mind taking out the garbage, then I can check to see if there are any empty bottles in it. Oops alanon slip.