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There is this thing called "division of labor". If my wife is willing to take on paying the bills, managing the money, keeping up with my medication regimen, doctor's appointments, heck, even ordering food in a restaurant, that's fine with me. Then I have more time to focus on other things both required tasks and enjoyable pastimes.
It sounds to me like OP has some issues with self-confidence as a man.
I know that my mother will sometimes go to the doctor with my dad, because for some reason all of the complaints he's been having that prompted him to go to the doctor in the first place become "fine" when he's sitting there on the table. He doesn't ask about new medications, he doesn't tell the doctor how he's feeling, he forgets to mention new symptoms, etc. My dad isn't a spineless wimp, nor is my mother a shrieking harpy, and I think in general having someone to remember the questions you forget to ask isn't entirely a bad thing.
Yes unfortunately that happens often. Everything is fine no complaints just coming in because they’re supposed to. Or general resistance to the plan of care. There is definitely nothing wrong with having someone close who is familiar able to chime in and help out, as mentioned we do the same. My issue is more so with taking over, running the entire show, hardly allowing them to speak.
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Originally Posted by Chicken-wings
You really are assigning emotions to these people that you have no idea about. Maybe they consulted in the car and she ordered everything just to keep it efficient. It doesn't mean he's "lost his soul." [
I didn’t personally assign those emotions, my wife did. It wasn’t just a rare occurrence but an everyday one. There is a different look to someone’s face when they’re stepping back and letting someone handle it vs. someone who is defeated and knows their place.
Yes, adults in a relationship definitely should be in charge of their own business. But sometimes people have anxiety about med appointments. Who knows???
My main thought is that you are seriously judging these folks without knowing the whole story. "Soulless?" "Weak?" You work in healthcare and now might be a good time to remember that you are supposed to be compassionate above all.[/quote]
Compassion does not prohibit questioning. I am referring to a small subgroup of the population I see. Plenty of married men come in alone or come in with their wives who either dont interfere or chime in for additional input.
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Originally Posted by zentropa
OP, do you suppose the same thing happens when a man takes his car to the garage for repairs? Or goes to Home Depot to get supplies for a DIY project? Or is buying consumer electronics?
Or maybe, just MAYBE...women tend to be more engaged on health care matters in general and will be the ones who come in to your workplace with the data and questions.
But why have those men lost interest in their own healthcare needs? And as I mentioned f my post was read carefully enough this is not solely about medical matters. Its major financial matters, everyday matters. “Oh she took over that”
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3
There is this thing called "division of labor". If my wife is willing to take on paying the bills, managing the money, keeping up with my medication regimen, doctor's appointments, heck, even ordering food in a restaurant, that's fine with me. Then I have more time to focus on other things both required tasks and enjoyable pastimes.
It sounds to me like OP has some issues with self-confidence as a man.
As I used to say:
"Toy poodle! The dog for the man who's secure!"
If that’s the way you want to do it then more power to you brother.
It just does not appear that you speak for everybodya relationships either.
Regardless of how or why these arrangements are made, sure you can take care of yourself at 22. But what happens when god forbid you’re 56 and divorce after 35 years of knowing nothing about taking care of yourself and your needs?
OP, do you suppose the same thing happens when a man takes his car to the garage for repairs? Or goes to Home Depot to get supplies for a DIY project? Or is buying consumer electronics?
Or maybe, just MAYBE...women tend to be more engaged on health care matters in general and will be the ones who come in to your workplace with the data and questions.
Apparently, there is somewhat of a tendency for men not to be very engaged with their own wellness. Some of these wives might have pushed their way into taking care of husbands who won't take care of themselves. That might account for some of what you've seen.
I could venture a few other guesses, but I too can't relate to somebody who would sit there like a 5-year-old while his wife talks to the doctor on his behalf. Maybe some men had that behavior modeled for them by their fathers, but that just passes the question to the father.
I'm on top of my healthcare. If for some reason my wife went to the appointment with me, I can imagine very few situations in which I'd think it appropriate for her to be in the exam room with me. In such a rare situation, I wouldn't mind if she raised a point or two that I had overlooked, or an observation in response to a point the doctor raised. But by no stretch of the imagination would she take over. If the doctor displayed any mindset of deferring to her as the naturally more-equipped caregiver, I'd find a new doctor. I'd of course maintain the same respect for her healthcare.
But why have those men lost interest in their own healthcare needs?
You're kidding, right? Men have always been the more reluctant gender to take care of their health needs regularly.
Quote:
And as I mentioned f my post was read carefully enough this is not solely about medical matters. Its major financial matters, everyday matters. “Oh she took over that”
Why do you think you are so up to speed on on other people's private financial and "everyday" matters? I really don't believe you are omniscient as you imagine.
My mother handled ALL the money in our family, planned the vacations and bought all the gifts. And she was a SAHM who never earned a dime. That arrangement was very common. No one thought it was weird 50 years ago. But you think it's weird now?
You're kidding, right? Men have always been the more reluctant gender to take care of their health needs regularly.
Why do you think you are so up to speed on on other people's private financial and "everyday" matters? I really don't believe you are omniscient as you imagine.
My mother handled ALL the money in our family, planned the vacations and bought all the gifts. And she was a SAHM who never earned a dime. That arrangement was very common. No one thought it was weird 50 years ago. But you think it's weird now?
Plenty of men come in and are very on top of their medical needs. They’re not any less manly for that.
I know their private and financial matters based on what they respond to me because as I clearly stated, that’s part of the questionnaire
Yes unfortunately that happens often. Everything is fine no complaints just coming in because they’re supposed to. Or general resistance to the plan of care. There is definitely nothing wrong with having someone close who is familiar able to chime in and help out, as mentioned we do the same. My issue is more so with taking over, running the entire show, hardly allowing them to speak.
But why have those men lost interest in their own healthcare needs? And as I mentioned f my post was read carefully enough this is not solely about medical matters. Its major financial matters, everyday matters. “Oh she took over that”.
In many cases, women have had to do this—make appointments for their husbands, etc., because otherwise the men wouldn’t ever go to the doctor. They do it because they care. This is not a sudden, new thing.
With regard to financial matters, in many cases, women do the routine bill paying and the men the investing. Go to the bogleheads website and you will see a fair number of guys expressing concern about what will happen to the wives if the men predecease them—because the wives show no interest in financial matters.
It doesn’t mean either sex is weak or spineless. Both sexes should have knowledge of their financials and health even if they choose to let the other do the day-to-day management. And most will probably manage okay if they have to.
In many cases, women have had to do this—make appointments for their husbands, etc., because otherwise the men wouldn’t ever go to the doctor. They do it because they care. This is not a sudden, new thing.
Right, when statistics show that married men live longer than single men, one of the factors is usually that the man's wife will prompt him to pay attention and advocate for his own health in a way that he might not do on his own.
I know that my mother will sometimes go to the doctor with my dad, because for some reason all of the complaints he's been having that prompted him to go to the doctor in the first place become "fine" when he's sitting there on the table. He doesn't ask about new medications, he doesn't tell the doctor how he's feeling, he forgets to mention new symptoms, etc. My dad isn't a spineless wimp, nor is my mother a shrieking harpy, and I think in general having someone to remember the questions you forget to ask isn't entirely a bad thing.
Yeah, I was thinking, one element of the concern at the forefront here, could be that some men are raised not to complain, to show weakness, to talk about how they "feel." And you know, even though I am not a man, I've had enough experiences where I noticed something that concerned me about my health, brought it to the attention of my provider, and had them sort of pooh-pooh me...like maybe run one test for one thing and then be like, "Wellp..*shrug*...guess it's in your head!" is how it feels. After a while, you just figure, if you can cope with this thing, even if it might be a sign of something serious, and it's a definite change of state, and you are worried about it...if it isn't debilitating, you'll just deal with it rather than feel dismissed or gaslighted by your doctor. So what I am saying, is that sometimes, a PERSON needs an advocate. Optimally we'd all be doing a good job of being one for ourselves. But sometimes, we're not.
I can imagine easily being a man's health advocate. But I cannot imagine anyone ever doing that for me. Guess it's because I've always been in the caretaker role and I've not felt that anyone was really doing a good job of giving me care, we tend to run with whatever programming we grew up with.
My ex had a habit of demanding a great deal of administration and maintenance. With him, though, it wasn't that he was in this submissive position of "soullessness" like the OP describes. He has "mommy issues" and every woman he brings into his life ends up being a surrogate caregiver. Every one must prove that they love him, by doing a lot of management of him in many ways. And then not being responsible for this or that thing, is his excuse if something goes wrong with it. Oh, he signed up for a "free trial" of something that is now charging the credit card $100/month? Oh well, he doesn't know better, who gave him a credit card in the first place huh? He's behaving badly? My fault for not managing his emotional state better. Sometimes it might look like someone is in charge, but really they are also getting to bear responsibility for everything the other partner does, maybe in ways they really wish they weren't.
You ASSUME that the woman set up this situation because she wanted to be in charge, and that the husband is browbeaten and in a state of surrender. You could be very, very wrong in a variety of possible ways.
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