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Old 06-14-2019, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,216 posts, read 14,446,786 times
Reputation: 39057

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Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
I know relationships...or I thought I did. On my third wife , but its been over a almost 60 year span We have been married 40 years, this is the marriage that works, at lest for a long time it did. About 14 years ago she confronted that If i did not stop drinking at hobby events too much, she would plain and simple , stop having sex with me so she did ! She also made it clear that I was the problem , not her sex drive as such. ( this last part was not clear enough I felt.)... So , I quit drinking all together , been off the booze 14 years except she still will not have sex, been a long time, ya I am old but at this point she has robbed me of a happy life in our senior years, I regret that, yet we do continue our lifestyle as always, spending our winters in a warmer climate and summers in the north woods. Our winter time is 4 to 5 months living in a large motor coach, we both like this.......just no sex !! I have confronted her several times over the years, looking for answers. The reply has always , " maybe one day i will change, no more questions " she clams up. I feel that I will try the question one more time , "are you having an affair" ? Its a very strange arrangement, in retalation IO cut off all gifting, no Christmas , only birth days and thats a card and dinner out....she always pays. She still works every day in the logistics business from home , wherever we are.....she has been very successful compared to my retirement income ! We have no kids. All I ask of Her is come clean, tell me your past and current affairs, if any , but I want the truth. I am not vindictive, If all these years she has been having relationships involving sex with other, I will understand, and live with it. What to do now, its been way too long ! How do I get her to open up with the truth ?
Don't assume she is cheating, or that she has cheated. I know you said that she told you the issue was not her sex drive, but that was what, 14 years ago???

I'll tell you a fact about me that I've confirmed with other (not all, but several) women. If we get good sex, we want more good sex, and the more we have, the more we want. If we do not get sex or we don't get whatever is "good" sex for us, then after a short time our brains are like, "Well if you don't have access to enjoyable sex we just won't worry about it...let's shut down the libido." The brain is the biggest, most effective sex organ there is. And just like if you learn something like a foreign language, how to play an instrument, or accounting...if you go for years without using it, you kind of lose it. You can regain it, but it won't simply happen spontaneously.

This happened to me when I was married. First I lost faith in his ability to see me and care about me the way I expected and wanted, and I stopped trusting him after hearing the way he talks sometimes. So I was not feeling good about him and I started saying no to sex. Not to punish, I just didn't feel safe and comfortable opening up to him, talking about what I wanted, trying to have good experiences. He would complain that he needed more sex, and I'd give him the minimum effort I could get away with, to satisfy his urge, and 10 minutes later I'd be glad it was over. I did not want him to try to please me because I kind of wished I didn't have to be doing it at all. I wasn't enjoying our sex, and eventually he wasn't either. And the more it became about keeping him happy, the more I felt like, "You will never be satisfied, I could give it up 3 times a week and you'd be mad it wasn't every day. Why should I dress up nice for you, I'm not getting anything out of this." I was resentful and contemptuous.

And both of us thought that there was something "wrong" with my sex drive!

And he also thought, sometimes, that I must be cheating, since he wasn't "getting any" he wondered, who was I giving it to? That's not how it works. I wasn't thinking about sex positively at all. Not with him or anyone.

Yet, as soon as I parted ways from him, I found lovers with whom I had wonderful experiences, and that turned the key in the ignition and I wanted more, more, more. I've got a good, healthy balance of fairly high desire for my partner now, and our sex life is wonderful. But...I TRUST HIM. I would trust him with anything. I can tell him anything and he would never try to shame me with it. I respect him. I know he respects me. No matter what kind of shenanigans we get up to in the bedroom, I know that in the light of day, he honors and respects and loves me.

I think that a sex life that is satisfying for those involved, is a feature of a healthy relationship with good trust, good communication, compatible needs, respect, and a generally good attitude about sex itself.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,229 posts, read 60,954,873 times
Reputation: 30108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
... I'll tell you a fact about me that I've confirmed with other (not all, but several) women. If we get good sex, we want more good sex, and the more we have, the more we want. If we do not get sex or we don't get whatever is "good" sex for us, then after a short time our brains are like, "Well if you don't have access to enjoyable sex we just won't worry about it...let's shut down the libido." The brain is the biggest, most effective sex organ there is. And just like if you learn something like a foreign language, how to play an instrument, or accounting...if you go for years without using it, you kind of lose it. You can regain it, but it won't simply happen spontaneously.

This happened to me when I was married. First I lost faith in his ability to see me and care about me the way I expected and wanted, and I stopped trusting him after hearing the way he talks sometimes. So I was not feeling good about him and I started saying no to sex. Not to punish, I just didn't feel safe and comfortable opening up to him, talking about what I wanted, trying to have good experiences. He would complain that he needed more sex, and I'd give him the minimum effort I could get away with, to satisfy his urge, and 10 minutes later I'd be glad it was over. I did not want him to try to please me because I kind of wished I didn't have to be doing it at all. I wasn't enjoying our sex, and eventually he wasn't either. And the more it became about keeping him happy, the more I felt like, "You will never be satisfied, I could give it up 3 times a week and you'd be mad it wasn't every day. Why should I dress up nice for you, I'm not getting anything out of this." I was resentful and contemptuous.

And both of us thought that there was something "wrong" with my sex drive!

And he also thought, sometimes, that I must be cheating, since he wasn't "getting any" he wondered, who was I giving it to? That's not how it works. I wasn't thinking about sex positively at all. Not with him or anyone.

Yet, as soon as I parted ways from him, I found lovers with whom I had wonderful experiences, and that turned the key in the ignition and I wanted more, more, more. I've got a good, healthy balance of fairly high desire for my partner now, and our sex life is wonderful. But...I TRUST HIM. I would trust him with anything. I can tell him anything and he would never try to shame me with it. I respect him. I know he respects me. No matter what kind of shenanigans we get up to in the bedroom, I know that in the light of day, he honors and respects and loves me.

I think that a sex life that is satisfying for those involved, is a feature of a healthy relationship with good trust, good communication, compatible needs, respect, and a generally good attitude about sex itself.
I saw that process happen with my wife.

Her internal dialog made sex a horrible chore, and all I wanted from her was sex.

Once that becomes her internal dialog, I have no idea of how to change it.
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Old 06-14-2019, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,216 posts, read 14,446,786 times
Reputation: 39057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
I saw that process happen with my wife.

Her internal dialog made sex a horrible chore, and all I wanted from her was sex.

Once that becomes her internal dialog, I have no idea of how to change it.
The literal only piece of advice I have for anyone in that situation is the same book recommendation I always make, which is "Come As You Are" by Emily Nagoski. But! It only works, if the wife isn't digging in her heels and defending her position, and if the husband is willing to be part of the solution. I felt guilty for my lack of desire, but did not have a clear perspective on what was causing it until way after the fact. I would have been receptive to reading the book and might have learned something from it. Both partners must read it, and then I think if the relationship is sustainable and otherwise healthy, there is hope.

But Submariner, you have told us that it was more than your wife's internal dialogue. You've told us that she had actual medical problems that made sex painful for her. I think in her case, when "all you wanted from her was sex" it probably came off that you don't really care about how she feels, just how you feel when your needs are not met. That can be pretty emotionally daunting stuff that drives quite a wedge between people.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:09 PM
 
Location: In the bee-loud glade
5,573 posts, read 3,322,325 times
Reputation: 12295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Don't assume she is cheating, or that she has cheated. I know you said that she told you the issue was not her sex drive, but that was what, 14 years ago???

I'll tell you a fact about me that I've confirmed with other (not all, but several) women. If we get good sex, we want more good sex, and the more we have, the more we want. If we do not get sex or we don't get whatever is "good" sex for us, then after a short time our brains are like, "Well if you don't have access to enjoyable sex we just won't worry about it...let's shut down the libido." The brain is the biggest, most effective sex organ there is. And just like if you learn something like a foreign language, how to play an instrument, or accounting...if you go for years without using it, you kind of lose it. You can regain it, but it won't simply happen spontaneously.

This happened to me when I was married. First I lost faith in his ability to see me and care about me the way I expected and wanted, and I stopped trusting him after hearing the way he talks sometimes. So I was not feeling good about him and I started saying no to sex. Not to punish, I just didn't feel safe and comfortable opening up to him, talking about what I wanted, trying to have good experiences. He would complain that he needed more sex, and I'd give him the minimum effort I could get away with, to satisfy his urge, and 10 minutes later I'd be glad it was over. I did not want him to try to please me because I kind of wished I didn't have to be doing it at all. I wasn't enjoying our sex, and eventually he wasn't either. And the more it became about keeping him happy, the more I felt like, "You will never be satisfied, I could give it up 3 times a week and you'd be mad it wasn't every day. Why should I dress up nice for you, I'm not getting anything out of this." I was resentful and contemptuous.

And both of us thought that there was something "wrong" with my sex drive!

And he also thought, sometimes, that I must be cheating, since he wasn't "getting any" he wondered, who was I giving it to? That's not how it works. I wasn't thinking about sex positively at all. Not with him or anyone.

Yet, as soon as I parted ways from him, I found lovers with whom I had wonderful experiences, and that turned the key in the ignition and I wanted more, more, more. I've got a good, healthy balance of fairly high desire for my partner now, and our sex life is wonderful. But...I TRUST HIM. I would trust him with anything. I can tell him anything and he would never try to shame me with it. I respect him. I know he respects me. No matter what kind of shenanigans we get up to in the bedroom, I know that in the light of day, he honors and respects and loves me.

I think that a sex life that is satisfying for those involved, is a feature of a healthy relationship with good trust, good communication, compatible needs, respect, and a generally good attitude about sex itself.
I agree with what you're saying, but I'd add that sometimes one partner, as likely a woman as a man, gets bored with the other. We sort of accept that men may feel that way, but it seems to be news that women often do also. I think if both parties enter a relationship knowing that they each have a responsibility to keep it new, in and out of the bedroom, they're much more likely to enjoy each other.
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Old 06-14-2019, 01:21 PM
 
6,849 posts, read 4,327,950 times
Reputation: 22409
Sex is important and no sex will kill many relationships. Sometimes with age and medical conditions men can’t perform at all even with medical help. That’s sad but I don’t see those marriages falling apart because it’s no one’s fault.
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
20,216 posts, read 14,446,786 times
Reputation: 39057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
Sex is important and no sex will kill many relationships. Sometimes with age and medical conditions men can’t perform at all even with medical help. That’s sad but I don’t see those marriages falling apart because it’s no one’s fault.
Hearing this kind of thing makes me sad.

I feel like when two people are enthusiastic about one another, and have even remotely open minds...why does sex have to be ALL ABOUT the ol' piv? There are so many things one can do. Joyful sexual expression doesn't even have to be about what is between the leggers.

That's why I emphasized all that about trust and feeling emotionally safe and good with a partner. And that doesn't even mean that one must be in this super deep, committed long term relationship...I felt safe being experimental and fun with a fling guy, because at the end of the day my investment in him wasn't such that I cared what he thought of me, if he respected me a whole lot or no. But in a serious relationship, which I think is most people's ideal space to be sexual...yeah, you've got to have the flow of trust and feel safe sharing your sexuality. It feels vulnerable, and scary!

I mean seriously, ya'll know I'm happy to talk about the freaky deaky among strangers, like, here I am, right, barely able to keep a on some of my more outrageous activities and constantly fussing over whether I am oversharing, which I'm prone to do. And yet, when it came to the man I was married to, exclusive with for 18 years, any time I tried to vocalize anything sex-related, my soul would shrivel up and I'd go mute. And we aren't talking just shocking fantasy stuff, I mean during the act saying "that feels good" or "to the left please" was a nope. Because my vulnerable, intimate self was locked up behind big, thick walls. Looking back it's so obvious, but at the time I just felt like a failure.

If you are comfortable sharing what is normally so vulnerable and private with a partner...it doesn't matter if the equipment doesn't function as it once did...it's about making one another feel good. You've got a whole body for that! And if you are NOT comfortable baring your inner sexual self with a partner, it won't matter if you've got the best working plumbing in the whole world, your enjoyment is gonna be limited, at best. The walls have to come down.
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Old 06-14-2019, 03:55 PM
 
892 posts, read 478,362 times
Reputation: 704
it depends on the quality, mutually agreed on. keep the dialogue ongoing and honest.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:39 PM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,733 posts, read 15,878,317 times
Reputation: 2869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Hearing this kind of thing makes me sad.

I feel like when two people are enthusiastic about one another, and have even remotely open minds...why does sex have to be ALL ABOUT the ol' piv? There are so many things one can do. Joyful sexual expression doesn't even have to be about what is between the leggers.

That's why I emphasized all that about trust and feeling emotionally safe and good with a partner. And that doesn't even mean that one must be in this super deep, committed long term relationship...I felt safe being experimental and fun with a fling guy, because at the end of the day my investment in him wasn't such that I cared what he thought of me, if he respected me a whole lot or no. But in a serious relationship, which I think is most people's ideal space to be sexual...yeah, you've got to have the flow of trust and feel safe sharing your sexuality. It feels vulnerable, and scary!

I mean seriously, ya'll know I'm happy to talk about the freaky deaky among strangers, like, here I am, right, barely able to keep a on some of my more outrageous activities and constantly fussing over whether I am oversharing, which I'm prone to do. And yet, when it came to the man I was married to, exclusive with for 18 years, any time I tried to vocalize anything sex-related, my soul would shrivel up and I'd go mute. And we aren't talking just shocking fantasy stuff, I mean during the act saying "that feels good" or "to the left please" was a nope. Because my vulnerable, intimate self was locked up behind big, thick walls. Looking back it's so obvious, but at the time I just felt like a failure.

If you are comfortable sharing what is normally so vulnerable and private with a partner...it doesn't matter if the equipment doesn't function as it once did...it's about making one another feel good. You've got a whole body for that! And if you are NOT comfortable baring your inner sexual self with a partner, it won't matter if you've got the best working plumbing in the whole world, your enjoyment is gonna be limited, at best. The walls have to come down.
Maybe the French have it right , no rules, only understanding between the wife and the mistress. I think I would like that.m
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:08 PM
 
9,339 posts, read 6,876,984 times
Reputation: 14740
Top 3-5 but not the most important thing.
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Old 06-16-2019, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Central IL
20,726 posts, read 16,201,263 times
Reputation: 50367
Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
Maybe the French have it right , no rules, only understanding between the wife and the mistress. I think I would like that.m
Sure, you can have a mistress, just keep in mind that your wife can also BE a mistress. She'll just keep it between her and the guy's wife.
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