Why are there so few female loners who still want romantic relationships? (girlfriends, girls)

[ellybelly83]

Originally Posted by cleasach

I read with raised eyebrows how much women are expected to "sell themselves" on dating sites like it's some sort of job interview. The thinking is that men have so many options that you have to push yourself to the front of the line with a "pick me, pick me" face on and use any way possible to get his attention. Then, a mere few seconds can make or break your chances. Men may have the upper hand with women desperate for a relationship and perhaps they will cater to this type of expectation but that's most definitely not me.

I have personally felt it was more the opposite. I did treat OLD like a job interview though and most guys didn't pass the first round. I did notice that due to what seems like a never-ending supply of potential suitors, everyone (men and women) were very quick to cut when the other person wasn't perfect.

[cleasach]

Originally Posted by timberline742

I can see how you see it this way, but most women I know that have success with OLD don't play it like that. They aren't in pick me pick me mode, they're in, I pick him. They initiate and reach out to those they want to chat with.

That is good to know. I was more thinking in line with the sort of 'pick me, pick me' mode starting after meeting someone they met online that they chose to correspond with initially. I have a dear friend doing the OLD thing and she worries about what she can do to "keep him interested" after only one date or two because there are so many people doing the OLD dating thing and "he has so many other options." I told her I thought she was nuts to view it that way but she said that's how it is. She told me she slept with some of the people she met a lot earlier than she would have liked but did so because she thought they would vanish if she didn't and that I just don't understand how it is today. I'm definitely fine with not understanding that.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by cleasach

That is good to know. I was more thinking in line with the sort of 'pick me, pick me' mode starting after meeting someone they met online that they chose to correspond with initially. I have a dear friend doing the OLD thing and she worries about what she can do to "keep him interested" after only one date or two because there are so many people doing the OLD dating thing and "he has so many other options." I told her I thought she was nuts to view it that way but she said that's how it is. She told me she slept with some of the people she met a lot earlier than she would have liked but did so because she thought they would vanish if she didn't and that I just don't understand how it is today. I'm definitely fine with not understanding that.

That is sad to hear. No one should sleep with another person unless they really wanted to sleep with them, certainly not out of fear. She doesn't sound like she is in a solid place. That's too bad.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by cyphorx

I have noticed online as well as in real life, non-social(different from antisocial) men outnumber non-social women by a HUGE margin, and while some male loners have no use for romantic involvement they are a(granted loud) small minority, for most male loners a romantic partner is their ONE exception to their "I don't like people" mindset, on the flip side most of the few women that are loners also include potential romantic partners as people to avoid also.

I think the answer could be as simple as testosterone vs. estrogen. I think most people will agree that men are more aggressive than women on the average and that testosterone is partly responsible. To put it another way, men tend to be more combative while women tend to cooperate better together.

Originally Posted by cyphorx

I know other guys in depression group who feel the same way, but why aren't there many women with that mindset?

I'm glad to hear you are in therapy. I am particularly interested having minored in Psychology in college, and I think the world would be a better, happier place if counseling were more often used.

Originally Posted by DontH8Me

I am seeing this phenomenon online more and more - men convincing themselves that if only the right woman would just embrace them unconditionally, then their own lives would somehow sort themselves out (by osmosis?). What a burden to put upon a person, to be responsible for another person's contentment in life.

That is just another way to avoid accepting personal responsibility for your own life. One thing I have learned in my life is that it is a very rare thing for me to get something without working for it. The lesson is that if you want something you have get it for yourself.

Anybody who thinks "that right woman" (or man) is going to fix your life, you are confusing a romantic interest with clinical psychology. You go to the former for a good time. You seek the latter to get your head twisted on straight.

Originally Posted by timberline742

Very true. It's a horrible burden, but no fear, when people create this mythical perfect person that has so many criteria that they almost certainly do not statistically exist (or are incredibly rare) and you add to that, the odds against meeting them and having chemistry, we see this for what it is.

Creating some mythical perfect lover is IMO mental masturbation, and for the reason you cited. Somebody sets their sights on a purple unicorn, they meet a violet unicorn, nope, not good enough.

This phenomenon is described quite accurately in "Games People Play" by Eric Berne, in a pop psychology book that was in vogue some decades back. This game is the type of person who proposes a problem then rejects all offered advice for this reason or that. The crux of this attitude is that the very definition of the problem makes it unsolvable.

Let's say I have a list of a couple dozen criteria for OLD dates. My attitude is that any potential match who hits over 50% of my criteria and has no deal breakers is a very interesting find. Yet if I demanded that all couple dozen criteria were met, I'm sure I would still be hoping for my first date of 2018.

Originally Posted by DontH8Me

Do you think part of it is based in fear? Fear of being vulnerable to someone, fear of rejection?

I hope I'm not stepping out of my place by speaking for all men, but I am pretty sure that fear of rejection are the #1, #2, and #3 reasons men find it difficult to approach women.

I know for sure that fear of rejection was MY #1 reason for not approaching women. (I have since fixed that. There's still the problem that a man can never know for sure if a woman wants to be approached, without giving it a try.)

Originally Posted by DontH8Me

I have a female friend who has been screening guys online for over a decade. She has such specific expectations, both physical, education, interests, etc. that she even rules out guys that are entirely out of her league. She hasn't been on an actual date for over ten years. She will message and banter with guys until it's time to meet in person and then she rules each one out for some obscure reason. I think she fears rejection, yet craves the attention of a man so desperately that she finds her identity in who she's in a relationship with. No boyfriend=no identity.

You found a female exemplar as counterpoint to men with the OP's mindset.

Originally Posted by somebodynew

I was talking to someone online who was telling me how much he worked. I asked him something like when do you have time to hang out with friends and do stuff you like? He answered he had no friends because he worked so much. Turns out he worked so much BECAUSE he had no life and was looking for a woman to have some reason to bother to have one. Pass.

There have always been people who were obsessed with their jobs to the detriment of their social lives and families.

The logic is obviously defective. He expects a woman to fix his life but he is too occupied to meet women. Vicious cycle, circular logic. A circle is the only 2-dimensional geometric figure with no beginning and no end.

I'll say it again: there is no way to fix your life until you accept personal responsibility for your personal problems.

Originally Posted by Auraliea

Could be a multitude of reasons why. However, it's no ones business or job to try to "fix" people like this. Some if not all of them who choose to be that way, define their own happiness. They don't want or need someone else to do it for them.

That's why you and I and the CD-R gang frequent this forum section. We like trying to help people, and there can be no question in my mind we have helped people, but in the end the serious problems are going to require professional help.

The reason I know the CD-R gang has helped people is because I have personally benefited from advice I've received here, and advice to others that I've read!

Originally Posted by srjth

I love male loners like the ones you describe. I've only ever been with male loners - the kind you say that are loners but still want a romantic relationship. Sometimes I think I want to try to have a relationship with the opposite very social type of male but I can't recall one ever being attracted to me past high school.

Please pardon my saying, but perhaps you should try a relationship with the opposite of the men you're dating. Perhaps you have simply been dating the wrong men?

Originally Posted by srjth

Edit: Oh I forgot.... I have a friend who's been an orbiter for 30 years. I am just not attracted to him but he is the social type.

LOL, I saw that one coming.

[gazzaa2]

Originally Posted by DontH8Me

Do you think part of it is based in fear? Fear of being vulnerable to someone, fear of rejection? I have a female friend who has been screening guys online for over a decade. She has such specific expectations, both physical, education, interests, etc. that she even rules out guys that are entirely out of her league. She hasn't been on an actual date for over ten years. She will message and banter with guys until it's time to meet in person and then she rules each one out for some obscure reason. I think she fears rejection, yet craves the attention of a man so desperately that she finds her identity in who she's in a relationship with. No boyfriend=no identity.

It's also supply and demand.

Women usually can always find a lot of suitors (particularly now with OLD), whereas a guy has to put the work in. Meeting women is also a lot harder for loners.

You want what you can't have/haven't got versus don't need what you can easily get.

[Sydney123]

Originally Posted by ThisTown123

Yeah, it's kind of sad. We've gone from people that are anti-marriage, which I can't blame them, to anti-relationship or "I'll have a man/woman in my life, but only if it's convenient to me".

Google "Living together apart" and you'll see what I mean. Pretty sad.

I used to say something similar.. “I like men, I just don’t want one of my own.” It wasn’t a condemnation of men, marriage or relationships. Had nothing to do with wanting to be a loner or being anti social... I just had different priorities, and I didn’t want to deal with someone else’s feelings or their expectations of me. I had things that I wanted to do/accomplish without having to answer to another. Yup it would have been quite
“Inconvenient”, because I didn’t see where I owed a man my attention until “I” was ready to give a man my attention. I was always very up front with the men who asked me out, giving them a choice whether or not to take me out. Don’t know what you find “ sad” about people making personal choices????
I am pretty sure that most people don’t enter in to relationships... until it’s “convenient”.

con·ven·ient
/kənˈvēnyənt/Submit
adjective
fitting in well with a person's needs, activities, and plans.


... just sayin

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Seriously. How is this even a question? I would not want a person (other than a child) totally reliant on me to live. What a horrible burden, and horrible dynamic. What if she isn't happy and thriving? What then? Forced to stay because she needs the other person for food and shelter and security?


Like, that's just a horrific thought. Who would wan their daughter or sister to have to live like that?

Ah, but the payoff for the guys with this mentality is that they will always have leverage over their partner, if she's completely financially dependent. The "breadwinner" will always be in a position to call the shots. Dominance is virtually guaranteed.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Ah, but the payoff for the guys with this mentality is that they will always have leverage over their partner, if she's completely financially dependent. The "breadwinner" will always be in a position to call the shots. Dominance is virtually guaranteed.

If someone (male or female) needs someone to be subservient and reliant on them to feel in control and dominant, well, that's the epitome of a loser in my book. Best thing is to keep them out of the dating pool.

[VanMarlton]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Ah, but the payoff for the guys with this mentality is that they will always have leverage over their partner, if she's completely financially dependent. The "breadwinner" will always be in a position to call the shots. Dominance is virtually guaranteed.

But hey, women have a thing for men in charge, no?

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by cyphorx

I know other guys in depression group who feel the same way, but why aren't there many women with that mindset?

There are plenty of women with that mindset. You just haven't met them. As a male, you're naturally going to be more privy to the male experience; you have little access to the female experience, so your perceptions will be skewed toward the male side. That's all it is.