What does interest from women look like? (attraction, friendship, conversation)
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Wrong frame. Read this article, it's one of The Rational Male's iron rules.
Because not only will this improve your opportunities with women, it will improve your life.
If your operating in your own frame, you are not worried about what she thinks. And paradoxically, if you are not worried about what she thinks you will not come across as creepy.
I highly recommend a strict avoidance of operating in any woman's frame. Don't do it when you are single, don't do it when you get a girlfriend, and don't even do it when you get married.
There's something to be said for learning how to not turn women off. I've had help with this in the past: Don't throw off red flags, don't be weird, be interesting. Be funny, but don't try hard to be funny. Be lighthearted. Banter. Flirt.
My biggest concern: losing track of who I am because I'm trying to be attractive. I don't want to change or hide who I am in an effort to be attractive. I need to be practiced on how to carry on an interesting conversation with anyone. I think that's half the battle there.
You dont have to hide who you are, youre just adding to the arsenal of who you are. You dont have change yourself entirely, you just have to see the benefits of changing certain things for the better. You always stay who you are, learning how to be more interesting to converse with isnt going to turn you into a bad person.
You ever had those conversations where, before you know it youve changed the subject 20 times? Its like going down a rabbit hole of tangents. Just do that. It happens naturally when you start off well.
No matter what, if you want a relationship at some point, you will have to not only seem normal, but be normal to the women that you are looking at.
The problem is, if your asperger's keeps you from seeming normal to people initially, and you dont want to change that, thats understandable but you are going to have to pick your battles. If its a constant fight in your own brain to converse normally without issues, then I understand why you wouldnt want to do it.
But It'll be really rare that a woman will think the quirkiness is cute enough to pursue. Im sure you dont want to have to risk 100 more rejections to find that one. And even if you get there, you dont know how to carry on a relationship.
I know so many people will cop out and say "oh dont worry you'll run into someone that will understand you someday", thats bullsh**. Youve already seen thats not true. You have to make them WANT to be around you, you have to be compelling/interesting (to a degree). If you just like watching netflix and stamp collecting, youre not going to be interesting to anyone unless youre an adonis.
Tip #1: we’re not all alike; we’re kind of like people that way. What looks like interest from one woman might be benevolent politeness in the next.
Tip #1: we’re not all alike; we’re kind of like people that way. What looks like interest from one woman might be benevolent politeness in the next.
I’ve come to think it’s bad form to base a presumption of interest on politeness alone.
Reminder that I did try to explain what exactly I was talking about, and it wasn't specifically about the exact words used:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
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Often it's not about the words specifically, so much as it's about who is saying them and the spirit behind them when they come out of your mouth. Nice people with genuinely friendly tone can call me "sweetheart" all day. Guys trying to be shmoozy, it usually shows no matter what words they're choosing. Some "chicks" might fall for it; this one won't.
To be clear, perhaps it's the East Coast origins in me, but I prefer a man who is a little awkward but genuine in his own skin, to one who is faking so hard, swaggering his best, shmoozing his shmooze, trying to look so smooth, and slinging endearments can often come off as "fake front." The shmooziest guys I have ever known, and the ones most likely to use those words in condescending tones, are just beneath the surface quite certain that they are worms. They have no real spine underneath the fake front, and their true self esteem is very low. It's pretentious behavior. And it is flagrantly obvious.
And when a guy dishes that kind of smarm, I only react one of two ways. "GTF away from me" and I avoid him henceforth like he's some sort of a social leper...or more commonly, it awakens my inner sadist and I want to cut his pomposity to wriggling shreds. Though of course, in terms of "game" and advice, what men might tell you to use to play numbers games with herds of college girls or something, might not be the same tactic you'd choose for a snarky intellectual gal in her 30's.
The other thing about a man who is strutting around trying (and failing) to hide his fragile ego behind his cardboard swagger is that they can very easily be flattered and manipulated into doing pretty much anything I want them to do. These guys are suckers. Smart women can see 'em coming.
It's not the words. It's what is behind the use of the words. What mojo you are projecting.
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Originally Posted by Submariner
Okay, so "dear", "sweetie" and "babe" are definitely out.
How about 'maam'?
['Yes, maam'. 'No, maam'. 'Whatever you say, maam']
God no. Ma'am makes you sound like a bleating farm animal. A goat or a sheep perhaps. Maa'aaa'aaa'am... lol
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Originally Posted by NewNameForJoe
LOL it's more like "see ya later babe!" when leaving somewhere. It's like "people get mad about that? REALLY?" HAHAHAH
Not mad, no. It just makes a bad impression. I don't get mad so much as I silently judge you for it and gauge my next move based on that judgment. And again...it ain't the words, it's tone and attitude.
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Originally Posted by Molokai100
Hopefully my analogy wont get me into too much trouble with the ladies but here it goes. Women are a lot like dogs. LOL
I have 4 dogs and love them all. They unfortunately dont speak human language. They know certain words mean certain things but what they really rely on in understanding me is my vibe and my body language. They can tell precisely what kind of mood im in without me saying a word. They know when its beach time and they know when im working on something and im frustrated and short tempered. Women have this same sense of vibe and body language. In fact, i would say they rely on it more than spoken word (which is hard to believe based on how talkative they are).
You've stated several times about 19 straight rejections. I'm willing to bet whenever you interact with the ladies the 19 rejections covers your entire vibe like a cheap suit. No woman is going to look past that. No woman wont see it instantly. This is what i meant when i said you need to not care about outcomes. The guys who effortlessly ask women out could care less if a woman says yes because he is confident there is another one around the corner. You look at the woman in front of you as possibly the last liferaft on the Titanic. Can you see why the guy who doesnt care will always appear more attractive?
I cant tell you how to become the guy who doesnt care about the outcome. All i can tell you is you need to become the dog owner who has the "going to the beach" vibe and not the "Im working on my motorcycle and i'm frustrated" vibe. Once you have that the dogs will be jumping into the truck as fast as you lower the gate.
LOL wow. I have an analogy for you. If you are in public and you hear two people speaking Spanish to each other (assuming you only speak English and are in America) do you assume that 1.) They don't speak English and 2.) You're smarter than they are, or superior?
Except that the Spanish speakers in the scenario, DO speak English, making them at least more clever than someone who speaks only one language, at least in that particular respect. Some women speak non-verbal, at least those of us fortunate enough to be neurotypical (I have met the rare woman on the spectrum, who did not process non-verbal or social cues well.) But lol...we also speak "human language." Though your analogy is accurate insofar as, like you cannot charge furiously at a dog, shouting in a loud, growling, menacing tone, "WHO'S A GOOD BOY!?" it is true that if your non-verbal stuff doesn't match the words coming out of your mouth, we're gonna notice that.
And actions, tone, etc...it does speak louder than words, often enough.
wow. I have an analogy for you. If you are in public and you hear two people speaking Spanish to each other (assuming you only speak English and are in America) do you assume that 1.) They don't speak English and 2.) You're smarter than they are, or superior?
Except that the Spanish speakers in the scenario, DO speak English, making them at least more clever than someone who speaks only one language, at least in that particular respect. Some women speak non-verbal, at least those of us fortunate enough to be neurotypical (I have met the rare woman on the spectrum, who did not process non-verbal or social cues well.) But lol...we also speak "human language." Though your analogy is accurate insofar as, like you cannot charge furiously at a dog, shouting in a loud, growling, menacing tone, "WHO'S A GOOD BOY!?" it is true that if your non-verbal stuff doesn't match the words coming out of your mouth, we're gonna notice that.
And actions, tone, etc...it does speak louder than words, often enough.
Ok...pretty much got a headache trying to wade through that. This has nothing to do with intelligence or being clever. It has to do with the OP's telegraphing his lack of confidence through his vibe and body language. Which is why I was suggesting to him that he practices asking women out and dealing with the rejection in a way that, in the future, enables him to have the rejections affect him much less significantly thereby resulting in a vibe and body language that conveys a more confident person. Instead of looking at every interaction as a potential for a girlfriend how about looking at every interaction as a learning experience? This is a process which would enable a genuine transformation. The key word and I believe you already mentioned this, is genuine. This is not about appearing confident. This is one way to strive toward actually becoming more confident because when it is genuine...it will show.
I am in no way suggesting simply pretending you don't care although there has to be a fair bit of that to begin with. With time and more experiences, he would genuinely be impacted far less with the rejection and his vibe and body language would also reflect that. THAT...WOULD BE MORE ATTRACTIVE. His success rate would inevitably rise.
It would appear that is not going to happen as he struggles to find ways to mitigate rejections while not addressing the very reason he is getting rejected. What if I were to post on the Financial section I needed a way to successfully invest in the stock market without taking any risk? Or I wanted to mitigate those risks as much as possible while still being able to make significant gains. I would be told the more risks you take, the more success and failure are possible. This is a fact in life. No different with romance.
-Why hasn't it worked? I'm not an attractive or interesting man, and I lack confidence. That's the closest I've come to piecing together why.
-What has worked? Nothing. I've gotten one date in my life; during the date she was polite but aloof, and she ghosted me after. My other shots have all missed.
-Asking is an important part of the process. Here I'm trying to recalibrate when I should ask.
-Trying to keep a woman from feeling creeped out, or from being socially inappropriate, is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Just because a woman keeps it to herself doesn't mean I haven't violated the social contract with her.
Edit: Partially disingenuous on the last one. I'm trying to avoid making women feel uncomfortable, but I'm also trying to avoid getting rejected by asking out women who aren't interested. To date women haven't been interested or shown me that they're interested; means I need to cool it on the asking out until I see stronger signals. Trying to figure out what the signals could be.
The bolded is fixable. Hit the gym, get in shape. Straighten out your wardrobe and haircut. Facial hair can do a lot for a homely face, consider Lincoln. Do things that will give you confidence. If your professional life is unimpressive, get yourself into a better fit career, do something you can really get your claws into, and you will progress. I have no idea where your aptitudes lie. But if you are working fast food and living in your parent's basement, yeah, that's going to affect your confidence.
I firmly believe that any man can become an "8 out of 10" on most women's scale. If you are short, if you are built like a bodybuilder, you will have at least the shorter chicks looking at you. If you are sharply dressed, and your haircut/beard/whatever works for you, you can get off the bench at least sometimes. Unless you are out-and-out deformed with a face like the Elephant Man, you can improve enough to have considerable "play".
If you consider yourself unattractive and uninteresting, you might as well forget dating until you change that.
Finally - if you are an introverted and intellectual type, the Johnny Carson style approach is not going to work for you, you will have to force it and it will appear forced. Be more enigmatic. I know from experience - once I muscled up in my early 20's, they started coming to me. Of course the new physique was not the only thing, muscling up changed my attitude towards the "man in the mirror". Hard to say if the physical or mental change was more important - it does not matter, they are a package deal.
But once they come to you - there will be incompatibilities with many, maybe most. For me it was the child-free thing - about 80% of women are *not* child-free.
This skepticism, honest doubt that you will want anything to do with a gal once you really get to know her, is a good antidote to an over-eager approach.
Comprehensive post. Lots of content, thank you. Especially that signs of disinterest are more reliable than signs of interests. I recognize now several of the specific signs of disinterest that you mentioned from my date. Glancing at her watch, crossing her arms across her chest, rigid body positioning.
Based on my height (6' 2") what should I be aiming for in terms of weight?
Dude. You are tall, that will help. That's not something you can change. If you are fat, though, yeah, that's going to keep you out of play till you fix that.
If you are very muscular, you could be OK up to say 250#. Built like a linebacker. There are chicks that dig that. Not by any means all of them, but some of them.
Besides, if you don't jettison that lard now, it's going to be harder every year. And sooner or later, metabolic syndrome will rear it's ugly head, and part of that is "hard" is what you will *not* be, if you get my drift.
Even if you go 100% MGTOW, you still need to lose the excess fat. The facts of human biology will fall on you like a ton of bricks, and like Newton's Laws, you can't argue your way out of them.
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