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This resonates for me. Pound-for-pound I feel it's some of the most useful advice I've gotten here, but it's more in line with a different thread. Doesn't make it less useful.
My inner conflict is in not wanting to bother women who aren't interested or make them feel uncomfortable, not wanting to be rejected again (though I think I've made a little progress on this one in the last week), and wanting to act on my own interest in a woman. Until I can make peace there I need to focus on myself, not finding a partner, though I don't want to miss opportunities while I do it. Do you have any advice on, if I were to communicate interest, what to look for in return that signals she'd be open to further contact?
I know what you mean by making them feel uncomfortable. Sometimes I think it would be best for some of us guys to perhaps to err on the side of caution and not make an approach unless it's fully justified. Sometimes you may attempt a different angle that's out of your comfort zone in order to see you'll get different results only to wind up putting a foot in your mouth.
I have a male friend that approached a woman in her workplace that he met only one time at an event among friends. They talked to each other for a while then, then he decided to step out of his comfort zone and pretend to bump into her at work. That back fired as it got back to HER friends, and HER friends said, "Dude, don't do that, it's creepy". I'm a good friend of his, great guy otherwise and his friends can vouche for him. But it was a bit unorthodox for him as he was attempting other means of trying to woo a lady.
I know some dudes have the gift of gab and chat up complete strangers and pick up a spoon and tell an interesting experience about a spoon he encountered and actually keep people engaged.
My inner conflict is in not wanting to bother women who aren't interested or make them feel uncomfortable, not wanting to be rejected again (though I think I've made a little progress on this one in the last week), and wanting to act on my own interest in a woman. Until I can make peace there I need to focus on myself, not finding a partner, though I don't want to miss opportunities while I do it. Do you have any advice on, if I were to communicate interest, what to look for in return that signals she'd be open to further contact?
Like I said in my first post here, no two women are alike. One will be touchy-feely right away and means nothing by it other than she is a touchy-feely person. Another will be touchy-feely when she is attracted to you. Some women will never be touchy-feely in public even though they totally like you. Some are so shy they could be hard to talk to even when they like you.
You have to look at the sum total of the interaction. Where is it taking place? A spot where romance is expected like a club or bar, or at the bookstore? Are people drinking, which always increases touchy-feely? Is it a safe place? How did you meet? How old is she? Generally the older they are, the less openly enthusiastic the woman will be. Been there, done that.
Honestly, you have to get out there and talk to a lot of women and then you will see the patterns emerge.
General rule is in a non-romance spot, you don't have to do much to indicate you like them. Just by talking to them and smiling and looking in their eyes, you do that. In a bar, you've got to do more. Same goes for the women. In a non-romance spot, do they stop to talk? linger over the conversation? look in your eyes? stand a wee bit closer? touch you? touch their hair? (yes that is often a sign) laugh a lot? bring the conversation around to topics where you might have something to do together?
In a bar, you'll often get a lot of that but it doesn't mean the same thing. It's loud, you have to stand close, wind up touching, people are there to talk and laugh. Not a good place to start anyway, too much pressure.
My experience is that women who are interested in you will let you know somehow. If you see the opposite of the above, then chances are good they are not interested. Don't push on those. Move on. You'll likely see the opposite of the above. Most guys do most of the time.
And like I also said above, as soon as you get the vibe, ask them out. Do not wait. The bigger error is letting the moment pass than it is asking too soon. If the conversation fizzles after a nice buzz, you cannot recover.
And it goes without saying, you better be prepared with a variety of date options. Know the locale, know the cool things to do. Know the casual places to go to first, places with something to do other than stare at each other across a table. Don't offer a selection. That's lame. Size up the woman and pick something she would like. If she counters with something else, bingo, go do that.
And by date I most certainly do not mean a formal invitation to dinner the next Sat night. LOL. No, I mean a place to get together at the next earliest time, which could mean leaving wherever you are and going for a walk or a snack or a drink or whatever.
This resonates for me. Pound-for-pound I feel it's some of the most useful advice I've gotten here, but it's more in line with a different thread. Doesn't make it less useful.
My inner conflict is in not wanting to bother women who aren't interested or make them feel uncomfortable, not wanting to be rejected again (though I think I've made a little progress on this one in the last week), and wanting to act on my own interest in a woman. Until I can make peace there I need to focus on myself, not finding a partner, though I don't want to miss opportunities while I do it. Do you have any advice on, if I were to communicate interest, what to look for in return that signals she'd be open to further contact?
The bolded is a very good indicator of one of the thing's that holding you back.
You know where I stand on the weight. I believe thats your number one issue. But other than that, you are obviously creating too much comfort in women.
Rule of thumb- too much comfort is bad in the attraction game. What you want is sexual tension and uncertainty; that's the exciting stuff and what drives attraction.
If I'm you I'm starting with my thought process. IMO your whole process is somewhat flawed. I believe that to some degree you are conflating morality with fear. In other words, you are afraid to do certain things so you are ascribing a morality to what you are (not) doing in order to make yourself feel better about it.
There is nothing wrong whatsoever with flirting with women that you find attractive.
There is nothing wrong with asking them out.
There is nothing wrong with doing either with women that you don't know all that well (or not at all).
What I'm seeing is passivity, lack of decisiveness, and indecision. All of these things will kill you with women.
Now, back to the weight (you do understand I have to try if I'm really going to try and help). Let's put aside the 'ripped' part for a moment. You said that you wanted to do it for you and not to get a date. What possible reason would you have for not wanting to be a healthy body weight? if you want, I'll lose the weight right along side you. Because I need to lose the weight, too. We can PM each other, keep ourselves in check, whatever.
Now, back to the weight (you do understand I have to try if I'm really going to try and help). Let's put aside the 'ripped' part for a moment. You said that you wanted to do it for you and not to get a date. What possible reason would you have for not wanting to be a healthy body weight? if you want, I'll lose the weight right along side you. Because I need to lose the weight, too. We can PM each other, keep ourselves in check, whatever.
I've told you before, I'm going to get the weight done. That's happening. I'll admit the holidays were slow. But there are things I want to do that require me to be at a certain weight. My resistance is mainly in going to the gym. It's not something I enjoy. There are things I want to do that I need to build my core and upper body strength for. But going to the gym 4-6 times a week? Why? That's a sizeable investment of time. I would rather be investing it in other pursuits that interest me. I can accomplish my strength goals on 2-3 trips a week. I'm not going to have a great body, but I'm going to have a body that's able to do the things I want to do...things I know are 100% in my own power. Dating is not such a thing, so being a gym rat chasing a six-pack is not a worthy investment of time to me.
I've told you before, I'm going to get the weight done. That's happening. I'll admit the holidays were slow. But there are things I want to do that require me to be at a certain weight. My resistance is mainly in going to the gym. It's not something I enjoy. There are things I want to do that I need to build my core and upper body strength for. But going to the gym 4-6 times a week? Why? That's a sizeable investment of time. I would rather be investing it in other pursuits that interest me. I can accomplish my strength goals on 2-3 trips a week. I'm not going to have a great body, but I'm going to have a body that's able to do the things I want to do...things I know are 100% in my own power. Dating is not such a thing, so being a gym rat chasing a six-pack is not a worthy investment of time to me.
I do 3 to 4, and depending on what you're doing during those days, that should be enough. 5 to 6 is basically "living at the gym". To me I find that excessive, but to each their own.
This thread is patently probably one of the most oddest threads I've ever came across. What kind of world are we living in where some of the most basic gut level interactions we have can result in confusion and bewilderment.
We live in sad lonely isolationiing times for some.
I couldn't imagine a thread like this and in a moment of true honesty feel bad for some guy that had zero interactions enough with women to warrant a thread like this. This may sound snarky and I don't mean it to be.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowhound
This thread is patently probably one of the most oddest threads I've ever came across. What kind of world are we living in where some of the most basic gut level interactions we have can result in confusion and bewilderment.
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I don't think it is the times at all. It is recognition now that there is an autism spectrum, and a fair number of people on it. It's not that rare. For lots of people on this spectrum social cues that you or I take for granted and are obvious are complete riddles or not noticed at all. That must be incredibly frustrating for these individuals.
I believe interest in women is a something that at whole lot of men will never see because men have to do the approaching or they aren't attractive enough for women to show interest. The op is the same height as me although I have four pounds on him and I'm black.
People, if you want this thread to remain open, stay on topic. I've just deleted a whole slew of posts, off-topic chatter about BMI. Please keep your posts relevant to the opening topic. Thanks.
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I don't think it is the times at all. It is recognition now that there is an autism spectrum, and a fair number of people on it. It's not that rare. For lots of people on this spectrum social cues that you or I take for granted and are obvious are complete riddles or not noticed at all. That must be incredibly frustrating for these individuals.
I don't think the spectrum is the reason. At least, I've had two therapists be surprised when I mentioned it as a suspicion of mine...neither read anything like that in me.
I think it's more severe social anxiety that I've only begun stepping out of in the last year or two. I don't pick up naturally on social cues, because I never developed social skills at developmentally appropriate ages...I was ostracized, and then I was isolated and disengaged.
Conversation has gotten better and easier for the most part as long as I can relate to someone in some way, but it didn't come naturally to me. Signs of interest...much harder. Though I believe I may have had a brush with some just yesterday. She was a cashier at a restaurant. She had a grin on her face any time she was interacting with me (taking my order, getting a to-go box, and I bantered with her some as I was leaving). Not a retailer's business grin, but something genuine, slightly goofy even. She made strong eye contact with me, like her eyes were drawn to me, yet she couldn't look at me for long, had to glance away regularly...struck me as shy. Were those signs of interest, perhaps involuntary, on her part? Don't know for sure, I just know that it was behavior that I don't usually see directed at me.
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