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Old 01-20-2019, 12:55 PM
 
35,522 posts, read 17,818,962 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
But what if they are civil and coparenting (essentially) is pretty much all that is left..?

They say kids "know". So does a couple sticking it together for the reasons stated (economic reasons) or is that equally (more?) damaging to the children's success in the long term?
I've never seen any children - ever - who come from a family where the parents are civil to each other and coparent effectively in a marriage, and the kids say I sense there isn't all that much spark of passionate love between you two, you should divorce and I'd be happy for you if you did.

Have you? Ever? All I see are kids who pine and grieve and try to sabotage the parents new relationships, try to get their parents back together, get extremely mad at the one who left (or the one who stayed) for messing up the family, etc.
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:11 PM
 
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I'd never advocate for staying together if the marriage is unworkable for whatever reasons. If I hadn't divorced my first husband he would have taken DS and me down with him. (He eventually died from his alcohol abuse.) Second DH used to say, "It's better to come from a broken home than to live in one".

All but the most arch-conservative denominations understand that sometimes divorce is the only solution when issues such as domestic violence are involved and the partner won't change. I do believe, though, that couples in those denominations are more careful about choosing someone they truly believe will be "forever", rather than going in with the attitude that "if it doesn't work out, we can always divorce", and that may mean that they're more likely to stay happily married.
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
10,931 posts, read 11,692,733 times
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"Unwed mother" says it all, sadly.
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:04 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,053 posts, read 10,045,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I've never seen any children - ever - who come from a family where the parents are civil to each other and coparent effectively in a marriage, and the kids say I sense there isn't all that much spark of passionate love between you two, you should divorce and I'd be happy for you if you did.

Have you? Ever? All I see are kids who pine and grieve and try to sabotage the parents new relationships, try to get their parents back together, get extremely mad at the one who left (or the one who stayed) for messing up the family, etc.
Neither have I. That's kinda my point. Hence why I wanted to get everyone's thoughts on this (hopefully including those outside of those that frequent this forum). The typical advice from this forum (many threads and even in this thread) is to split from a loveless relationship even despite the children:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
I think staying together "for the kids" is one of the most harmful lies you can tell your children.

Even if parents are civil and polite to each other in the house, it's still all a lie.

IMHO it would be better for a couple to model earnest coping skills and civil co-parenting in separate relationships than to rip the rug out from under them after years of deception.
While this thread indicates that a marriage provides the economic stability for successful children which implies the opposite... So I'm having a difficult time putting thoughts/conclusions together for seemingly conflicting advice. I do know from personal experience that children of single parents definitely have the card stacked against them.... even when someone tries to step in and be the male role model (which is something I am doing currently for a very close friend).
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,761,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post

While this thread indicates that a marriage provides the economic stability for successful children which implies the opposite... So I'm having a difficult time putting thoughts/conclusions together for seemingly conflicting advice.
How is it difficult to reconcile?

There is no one answer that applies to every situation.

Some people achieve economic stability before divorcing. There are so many possible reasons that it would be impossible to list them all here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post

I do know from personal experience that children of single parents definitely have the card stacked against them.... even when someone tries to step in and be the male role model (which is something I am doing currently for a very close friend).
Does that not affect your relationship with your own children?
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:59 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,053 posts, read 10,045,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
Does that not affect your relationship with your own children?
No it does not. If anything it teaches them what close friendships look like and how valuable they are in a person's life. There is a very close nit circle of friends (we are like family to each other) that is very important to me. My kids know of nothing else.... for them.. they are like uncles/aunts and the kids their cousins.

What my children do not know is that we have "history" and thus I have history with her children (they were abandoned by their father).... I care for them even though they've never really totally accepted me. I am ok with that.
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:01 PM
 
68 posts, read 35,229 times
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I'm only 19 but i'd prefer to be married before having kids in the far off future. My family is very dysfunctional, everyone is either on their second or in one relative's case 7th marriage, there's tons of cheating. Most of my friend's parent's are not together and the one friend that has married parents have a lot of issues (spouse was in jail, affairs etc.) And are just staying for the kids. I have never seen an example of a healthy marriage to feel like marriage makes much or a difference. I have friends in common law relationships with a kid or 2 with a more stable relationship than anyone in my family that is married. You all make excellent points. I guess it depends on the people in the marriage and not the concept of marriage itself. I also know people in and out of common law relationships that are just as unstable
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
49,932 posts, read 59,761,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post

There is a very close nit circle of friends (we are like family to each other) that is very important to me. My kids know of nothing else.... for them.. they are like uncles/aunts and the kids their cousins.
Yes, I remember. It will be interesting when your kids are adults if they find out that "aunt" actually means "ex." At the very least it will cause them to do a lot of thinking about relationships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post

What my children do not know is that we have "history" and thus I have history with her children (they were abandoned by their father).... I care for them even though they've never really totally accepted me. I am ok with that.
So why are these semantics exempt from the conversation? You've always clung to these previous relationships as if your life depended on it, even as your actual marriage deteriorated.

I'm honestly not trying to provoke you here. You've been very open about your situation, and I know it's not easy. But your life is like a carefully arranged house of cards to which typical logic doesn't really apply.

Again, apples to oranges.

Marital status is relevant to the future well being of children. But above that, foundational characteristics like truth are even more relevant. I guess I'm trying to figure out what truth you're trying to advance in your family's life - and why.
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:34 PM
 
68 posts, read 35,229 times
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So do you think getting married because of a pregnancy is in the best interests or worst interests of a couple and baby? Is the foundation of the child's life more stable because the parents got married after discovering they're expecting?
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Old 01-20-2019, 04:35 PM
 
7,399 posts, read 4,622,034 times
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It depends on the area. In USA where majority ends up divorced, there is no difference.
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