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I mean, I'll go count & link the m-f'ers if I gotta. I've got time. There were a lot of 'em.
I seriously think that this expectation is being kept alive more by men, who are trying their best to make things work in their favor in dating, rather than women. Not just "trying to get laid" but like trying to make a good impression, trying to be liked, trying to make whatever outcome they hope for, work out, putting their best foot forward, along with their wallets.
I'm hoping perhaps it can help that so many women right here, have been like, "Ya know what fellas, you really don't have to do this. It's fine, seriously. We've got jobs now. We'll pay for our dinners. And it doesn't make us judge you, nor does it make us like you more if you pay. So you can stand down, seriously. When we say we'll be happy to pay for our own, you do not have any obligation to argue or insist."
We mean it.
Really.
A majority of us.
From dating a number of women, I will say, that it's almost never even steven ... unless you get married and you make the same or the woman makes more.
After dating starts in earnest, the women will still expect men to offer first to pay for restaurant bills, activities, bar tabs, etc.
But I think as far as men are concerned, if women offer to pay one every three to four times, that's pretty much considered even.
I think that's what I've been posting the whole time...why no problem with the MEN who always have to pay? Just the women who let them? And the thread didn't start out this way, it seems to have been hijacked by one poster's dislike of AMERICAN WOMEN and their "leeching ways". So inflammatory.
Can I ask why you seem to take exception only with the women who say that they will allow a man to pay for a date under certain circumstances, but not with the number of men who say that they prefer to take initiative on dates and will always pay for their female companions? Aren't they also upholding gender norms that you feel to be outdated? Why do they get a pass in your screeds?
For the same reason why the few women who say how women should pay since the first date get a free pass with you and the rest.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Right?
I mean, I'll go count & link the m-f'ers if I gotta. I've got time. There were a lot of 'em.
I seriously think that this expectation is being kept alive more by men, who are trying their best to make things work in their favor in dating, rather than women. Not just "trying to get laid" but like trying to make a good impression, trying to be liked, trying to make whatever outcome they hope for, work out, putting their best foot forward, along with their wallets.
I'm hoping perhaps it can help that so many women right here, have been like, "Ya know what fellas, you really don't have to do this. It's fine, seriously. We've got jobs now. We'll pay for our dinners. And it doesn't make us judge you, nor does it make us like you more if you pay. So you can stand down, seriously. When we say we'll be happy to pay for our own, you do not have any obligation to argue or insist."
We mean it.
Really.
A majority of us.
That's why I did it. It's my language of love. For my wife, on our first date twenty years ago I bought her pair of earrings, I mean, $12 earrings, but still, I was in college. I think she still has them.
I never said anything of the sort though and I have never "leeched" off of anyone. I have paid for what I ordered, paid for half of the tab, and paid for the entire tab plenty of times. Who pays for what just isn't a big thing to me, the company and the actual experience is.
Then this thread shouldn’t be an issue.
Quote:
I never expect the man to always pick up the tab.
Good. Then just pick up the tab instead of “trying”, problem solved. It’s the whole “I tried…I started to open my purse to show I was trying…I was going to…they don’t give me permission when I ask them if I can…” hen you want to do a nice gesture or simply do an adulty thing you simply do it. If I am a guest at someone’s house I don’t ask them for permission to take my plate to the kitchen sink or clear my throat to get their attention and wait for them to tell me not to worry and leave my plate at the table and then go “I tried to offer to take my plate to the kitchen sink but they didn’t let me.” I simply get up with my plate and walk to the kitchen sink. On my way there I’ll probably get a “Oh come on Onihc, just leave it there, don’t worry”. I’ll laugh it out with them while I wash my plate or whatever. I want to show that simple gesture of being thankful so I get up and do it. That’s all.
For the same reason why the few women who say how women should pay since the first date get a free pass with you and the rest.
It's not so much of a free pass as respecting other people's preferences. If a woman believes that she should be asked out and her date should pay for her, and there is a compatible man out there who feels the same, that has nothing to do with me and what I would prefer and they are not wrong for conducting themselves how they wish. They've both found an arrangement that pleases them.
Last edited by fleetiebelle; 06-20-2019 at 10:54 AM..
Hat Trick.
If I get there first, I pay for my own drink while I'm waiting.
I remember one time I went to the movies on a date. She was there first so she had both tickets ready. I gave her the money for my ticket and she declined. Didn't make a fuss. I knew we were going to get something to eat after that so after the movie I simply took care of it. She did try to snatch the check from my hand but I just took care of it. It's not that complicated really.
Good. Then just pick up the tab instead of “trying”, problem solved. It’s the whole “I tried…I started to open my purse to show I was trying…I was going to…they don’t give me permission when I ask them if I can…” hen you want to do a nice gesture or simply do an adulty thing you simply do it. If I am a guest at someone’s house I don’t ask them for permission to take my plate to the kitchen sink or clear my throat to get their attention and wait for them to tell me not to worry and leave my plate at the table and then go “I tried to offer to take my plate to the kitchen sink but they didn’t let me.” I simply get up with my plate and walk to the kitchen sink. On my way there I’ll probably get a “Oh come on Onihc, just leave it there, don’t worry”. I’ll laugh it out with them while I wash my plate or whatever. I want to show that simple gesture of being thankful so I get up and do it. That’s all.
No, the problem is that there really are a number of men who will INSIST. I mean it. It's not some fake "trying" thing... Think of your analogy like this:
You've finished dinner as a guest in someone's home, and people at the table are talking, you're participating in the conversation, and you didn't notice when one of the ladies got up (maybe she was going to the bathroom, you don't know) because you were engrossed in the conversation and being a good listener and such. She comes back and comes up by you and picks up your plate out of nowhere. You say, "Oh, I can get that!" (offer) and she says, "No, it's no trouble, I've got it" and you say, "No really I don't mind clearing up after myself" and she waves you off...
Like do you keep arguing and make a fuss? Dive at her and grab the plate? What? Or do you simply stand down and let her do the thing, since clearly she wants to be a good hostess and wants to pick up people's plates?
The polite thing is to thank her and return your attention to the conversation, not get all weird about who is picking up a plate.
Some men will SERIOUSLY insist on paying! I'm not gonna arm wrestle them over a check! lol The best I can do (reasonably and politely) is to convey as best as I can, that I am sincerely willing to pay my way and really it isn't a big deal and "Are you sure?" Make sure they understand that I didn't show up with an expectation that they were going to pay. And thank them, just as sincerely, if they do insist.
And the poster you keep arguing with, she is on the same page with this. There is a time to graciously allow someone else to be generous, where they won't end up feeling used. And seriously, if a guy is gonna be that insistent about it, then he can hardly get all fussy later that he "had to" pay, since he totally didn't!
One thing I'll say though... Given how ONLINE DATING in particular can be, with people basically doing a nearly blind date with stranger after stranger, I do believe it's far more reasonable for women to come to that expecting to pay our own way. And if a woman is one of the "traditional" sorts who expects men to pay, she had better say so in a profile, because men should know clearly to expect that before they ask her out. I think that women should try to understand how much of a grind online dating can be for guys. It's pretty ridiculous for us too, for different reasons, but no one should be shouldering an unfair financial burden for date after date with internet strangers basically. At least that's what I think.
(In other words, what I already believe, but even more so in that context.)
I'm hoping perhaps it can help that so many women right here, have been like, "Ya know what fellas, you really don't have to do this. It's fine, seriously. We've got jobs now. We'll pay for our dinners. And it doesn't make us judge you, nor does it make us like you more if you pay. So you can stand down, seriously. When we say we'll be happy to pay for our own, you do not have any obligation to argue or insist."
It just seems rude to me to ask someone out to something and then expect them to pay for half of it. Digging deeper, it’s not something I apply to friendships...if friends and I go to the movies, go to a theme park, go out for a night on the town, the expectation is that it’s every man for himself or some sort of exchange happens (“I got tickets, you get dinner”).
That makes me wonder why I don’t feel the same about a potential romantic encounter. I suppose it’s the investment angle...not that I’d be paying for sex or anything so crude, but by paying for the activities I’d invited her on one demonstrates commitment to the other person. It says “I want you to enjoy yourself and your time with me in this and not worry about the financial side of it.”
Though I have been known to pay friends’ ways to things if they expressed that they didn’t think they could afford it at that point, for sort of the same reason...going out and having a nice time with them was more important than saving a little money. I have also resisted being constantly paid for by others...in particular, my brother-in-law, who is a very nice man who makes considerably more money than I do. I’ve been to several things with he and my sister in which they invited me and he paid...the last time, I made sure to at least help by reimbursing them for the hotel stay, paying for their drinks, things like that.
This does all come back to the fact that it’s expected that men will do the asking out and take the lead on planning dates. I’ve never asked a woman out without the expectation that I’d pay the way if she had said yes. How many women on here feel the same way about paying, that whoever asks pays, but also feel that men should do the bulk of the asking and date-planning?
This does all come back to the fact that it’s expected that men will do the asking out and take the lead on planning dates. I’ve never asked a woman out without the expectation that I’d pay the way if she had said yes. How many women on here feel the same way about paying, that whoever asks pays, but also feel that men should do the bulk of the asking and date-planning?
^ That's a great question.
I think when I was on OLD, I did the majority of the asking out if it was a man that I actually was going to go out with at all. Plenty were asking me, but they weren't guys I wanted to date (mostly too young.) They were the shotgun blast of message spam that I politely declined...I was laser focusing on the few men I found truly interesting. When I spotted one, I didn't hesitate to message first and to be the one to ask him out if initial conversations were going well. I'm not afraid to approach.
I had to realize that if a guy got put off by me being too "bold" or "forward" or that I didn't let him pursue, if he worried I might be too easy or something...yeah he was a terrible pick for me anyhow. In fact I am pretty easy...for the right partner...so anyone who wants to date me needs to be able to accept that and not judge. Guys who feel they need to jump through hoops to "earn" a woman if she's worth anything, well that's some game playing I'm not even interested in. Pass.
I think that boyfriend and I have suggested going out about a fairly even amount, and we always pay our own share. It's when it comes to the bigger things where whoever planned it, and wants the other to go, and all...will usually pay for the excursion. I mean conventions for instance, where there's the con tickets, the hotel stay, etc. he will often pay because he's the one who really wants to go, I am not as invested and he knows I'm ok with not going...he can pay my way if he just wants me to accompany him so badly. I'm fine staying home, and he can just go! But like there have been times I've booked romantic weekend getaways in nice luxury places, for us to relax, sit in a hot tub in the mountains, eat fancy food, have fancy sex, etc. I am always the one to plan, pay, and execute those kinds of things. (His birthday is very close to Valentine's Day, so usually the two I combine into a weekend away that I pay for...like a B-day gift with extra sexytime.)
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