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People are a product of their cultural environment. I'm 50yo. In my generation, it was understood that the man paid for the dates--at least at the beginning of the relationship.
In America (and in most countries) it is a cultural expectation that the man will pay for at least the first couple of dates.
As I've pointed out to you several times already in this forum, you don't have to agree with this cultural norm. If you don't want to spend money on women, you don't have to. Just don't date.
You are very unreasonable to insist on dating, and then display a resentful attitude toward women when they presume that you will do the culturally expected thing--which is to pay when you invite them out.
You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. You are not going to change this culture by brooding and being resentful. Women will just ignore you and move on to a guy who is happy to be with them and doesn't mind picking up the tab.
So I suppose you are the one who cooks, washes dishes, takes care of the laundry, does house chores, etc. as your duty, as an old-fashioned woman, am I correct?
So I suppose you are the one who cooks, washes dishes, takes care of the laundry, does house chores, etc. as your duty, as an old-fashioned woman, am I correct?
Of course not. Even asking that question makes sexist, outdated assumptions about the role of a modern woman. "Sage 80" is only old-fashioned when it comes to men paying her expenses when dating.
I am generous and expect the man I'm with to be the same. I would never date anyone who didn't have a generous spirit.
So why don't you utilize your "generous spirit" to treat a man who expresses interest in you to dinner with alcoholic drinks for the first/second date. He will really appreciate the gesture.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage 80
^^^^ No, not at all.
People are a product of their cultural environment. I'm 50yo. In my generation, it was understood that the man paid for the dates--at least at the beginning of the relationship.
In America (and in most countries) it is a cultural expectation that the man will pay for at least the first couple of dates.
As I've pointed out to you several times already in this forum, you don't have to agree with this cultural norm. If you don't want to spend money on women, you don't have to. Just don't date.
You are very unreasonable to insist on dating, and then display a resentful attitude toward women when they presume that you will do the culturally expected thing--which is to pay when you invite them out.
You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. You are not going to change this culture by brooding and being resentful. Women will just ignore you and move on to a guy who is happy to be with them and doesn't mind picking up the tab.
I don’t know what part of America you are from or what era of America you dated in. But here in 2019 Washington DC going Dutch or doing separate checks hasn’t been necessary a deterrent on whether there is a second date or not. I’ve been asked out for second dates when I’ve had no interest in another date and there were where we split on the first date.
Also the last couple of dates, the woman has asked me to meet up. By that marker, they should have paid for the whole thing I gather? I wouldn’t hear letting her pay for the whole thing on the first date. I don’t think paying for your own check on a first date should be an indictment on one’s generosity.
You are very unreasonable to insist on dating, and then display a resentful attitude toward women when they presume that you will do the culturally expected thing--which is to pay when you invite them out.
You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. You are not going to change this culture by brooding and being resentful. Women will just ignore you and move on to a guy who is happy to be with them and doesn't mind picking up the tab.
Question: Do you hold to other "culturally expected" gender norms, like being a free cook and cleaning maid, a child-rearer, a complaint-less supplicant to a man's career moves, a provider of sex and sandwiches on demand?
If not, then who is the one wanting to have cake and eat it too?
So I suppose you are the one who cooks, washes dishes, takes care of the laundry, does house chores, etc. as your duty, as an old-fashioned woman, am I correct?
Yes, I do all those things. I take care of 90% the domestic responsibilities in my house. I am very happy to provide a nice, comfortable home for my family.
Question: Do you hold to other "culturally expected" gender norms, like being a free cook and cleaning maid, a child-rearer, a complaint-less supplicant to a man's career moves, a provider of sex and sandwiches on demand?
If not, then who is the one wanting to have cake and eat it too?
Actually, I do hold to other "culturally expected" gender norms. I do go along with the things that are bolded. My husband works very hard to support me and our children, so I do my part to take care of our home. I cook and find my payment in making delicious healthful meals for my family in a beautifully appointed kitchen.
As far as "sex and sandwiches on demand," my husband does not demand anything. He is respectful and appreciative of all I do. And I am happy to take care of him.
He is also generous and understands that I can't do everything, and provides help for me to keep up the house and take care of the children so that we still have time and energy for one another.
I am thrilled by this. I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything at all.
Actually, I do hold to other "culturally expected" gender norms. I do go along with the things that are bolded. My husband works very hard to support me and our children, so I do my part to take care of our home. I cook and find my payment in making delicious healthful meals for my family in a beautifully appointed kitchen.
As far as "sex and sandwiches on demand," my husband does not demand anything. He is respectful and appreciative of all I do. And I am happy to take care of him.
He is also generous and understands that I can't do everything, and provides help for me to keep up the house and take care of the children so that we still have time and energy for one another.
I am thrilled by this. I do not feel like I'm missing out on anything at all.
Fair enough. Do you judge women who have different relationship expectations the same way you've judged people in this thread for having different expectations payment for dates?
Yes, I do all those things. I take care of 90% the domestic responsibilities in my house. I am very happy to provide a nice, comfortable home for my family.
That is awesome, Sage 80, and I think that anyone who finds the life that makes them happy, is doing it right.
I would ask that you understand though, that the old rules can no longer be taken for granted. I'm a 40 year old woman with a career. I make considerably more money than my fiance does. And I am absolutely not down to be a full time domestic rockstar on top of my full time job, while my family simply enjoys all of the comfort that I pay for and work to maintain.
This is the reality for many women now.
And there are enough guys (not all but enough) who try to leverage a sense of obligation by paying for dates, to get a woman to give in to sex before she really wants to...or to even put up with things she does not appreciate during a relationship because he is so generous with his spending... I prefer not to deal with that. Let the score be even on who has paid for what, and let's proceed as equals, with no imposed obligations hanging in the air, so I figure.
But I can take this further, too. I don't buy or wear fancy clothing, and we aren't going to fancy places, on the first several dates. I'm not even wearing makeup, as I tend not to most of the time. I meet people as I am. I am not going to posture to impress anyone and I don't want that from my date. I want authenticity or nothing. The best place for a date? Anywhere quiet enough to have a conversation.
I do not need a man to prove that he can provide for me. I'll do that just fine. If he can simply provide for himself, then we're probably good.
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