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I mean, you might not be doing anything wrong and maybe she'd be OK with it in the morning, but how are you to know? And I don't think it happens too often but what if you had sex with someone who decides she is the victim in the situation because she was drunker than you thought she was and you felt she clearly gave consent but she doesn't agree.
But that's just what I would do as a guy. I can be quite cautious and would hate to be in that position of being falsely accused.
If you’re both drunk why is the man more responsible?
Some of these unwritten rules we have treats woman like children who are
not capable of making adult decisions.
I don't think that he is in the wrong if she gave her enthusiastic consent while drunk enough still to know what was going on. But I think from a legal standpoint it is risky if it comes back to bite you. She might decide she was drunker than he realised and therefore he took advantage. Nobody could prove it either way, it'd be a he said/she said. But do you want the headaches if the person turns out to be someone who doesn't have the same sense of what is her responsibility vs, yours, as you do. I think it's a minefield, personally.
First off, there's 'personality' in terms of walking into a house party in the city in your 20s, and talking to random women and trying to be able to entertain them and hold their attention. Otherwise known as 'charisma'.
And then there's 'personality' in terms of trying to flesh out whom you might connect with and potentially be able to spend long periods of time with. This is what really matters.
There's certainly women who are also 'academic, sometimes acerbic, uninteresting, nerdy, usually reserved, lacking in confidence, unremarkable' and if they are smart they'll be looking for someone like you. And they will be more so as they approach 40.
Unfortunately, the pool has dried up some then, but you definitely should be getting more shots than 10 years ago, no question.
The bolded statements are seemingly contradictory.
Looking for someone like me...like I said, I don’t think there’s many women looking for someone like me, and guys like me are pretty easy to find...meaning the ones who are looking for someone like me, find someone like me (and probably a better version of me) before they meet me. Will this always be the case? I don’t know. Maybe I’ve just been horrendously unlucky in my life on this front. If some people are naturally lucky (not supernaturally lucky, but statistically perform better than the average population in a given domain) it stands to reason that there are people who are naturally unlucky as well. For instance, for every person who draws face card pockets in Texas Hold ‘Em at better than the statistical average, there’s logically going to be be a corresponding person who draws 2-7 pockets at better than the statistical average as well. Maybe I’m the statistical reciprocal for a similar type of guy who’s had to shake women off of him all his life.
But if that’s the case, if there is a “type” of woman who would be attracted to a guy like me, slim though the population slice such women might fall into, then maybe it’s a matter of time before I meet such a unicorn. Maybe. But I’m definitely not getting more shots than 10 years ago, and I disagree with you that my chances improve with age. The times of life when women (and people in general) are most available, unattached, and looking (i.e., high school and college-aged) passed me by without anyone being interested in me; now that I’ve reached a stage in life when people are mostly attached, settled, and static, I do not think that I should be getting more shots than I would have had in college, and even if I did...I’ve got no natural instinct and intuition for this dating thing, and less experience than most high school kids (maybe even junior high school kids) to boot. That’s a big 8-ball to be behind...the rare woman looking for someone like me, can probably find a better specimen than me pretty easily, and likely knows it.
Well..IMO...only...my sex life would be greatly diminished if I was interrogated and judged whether capable of consenting to having sex if alcohol is involved, let alone initiating it. “Wait! You’ve been drinking! I don’t want to get in trouble here!” Is something I’ve never heard. I have to claim responsibility in my own actions, including the choice to drink.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carly1983
If I was a man, I wouldn't do anything sexual with a drunk woman I didn't know very well even if she initiated it. I think it's far too risky in that sense. The lines of consent become blurry and it can come back to bite you. I'd let her know I want to see her again, ask for her number instead and call her the next day to ask her out on a date or see if she still wanted to do what she was trying the night before.
Contradictions like this are why I err on the side of caution.
Not that I’ve had any opportunities to intimately interact with a drunk girl (or assault her, depending on your perspective), but I have been criticized for my conservatism in other regards, such as in my flat refusal to consider asking women out in the workplace, whether it’s her workplace, my workplace, or our workplace. It’s just not worth the ding if she decides that what I’ve done is inappropriate.
First off, there's 'personality' in terms of walking into a house party in the city in your 20s, and talking to random women and trying to be able to entertain them and hold their attention. Otherwise known as 'charisma'.
And then there's 'personality' in terms of trying to flesh out whom you might connect with and potentially be able to spend long periods of time with. This is what really matters.
There's certainly women who are also 'academic, sometimes acerbic, uninteresting, nerdy, usually reserved, lacking in confidence, unremarkable' and if they are smart they'll be looking for someone like you. And they will be more so as they approach 40.
Unfortunately, the pool has dried up some then, but you definitely should be getting more shots than 10 years ago, no question.
LOL watching you unpack your theory about attraction and older women has been amusing, but then you level this ^^^ back-handed compliment at him.
If you’re both drunk why is the man more responsible?
Some of these unwritten rules we have treats woman like children who are
not capable of making adult decisions.
I’d tend to agree with you.
I’m still not going to cross these unwritten rules. I have experience with being falsely accused of inappropriate behavior in the workplace by someone trying to get me fired. If events had unfolded differently in that situation it could have permanently cost me my career and possibly even led to charges being filed. So, I tend to be very sensitive to how what I do and say could be misconstrued by someone with ill-intent. Feeling up a drunk girl who comes and sits on my lap and starts feeling me up definitely falls into that category, particularly because that would be extremely anomalous behavior of a woman towards me.
Not that I’ve had any opportunities to intimately interact with a drunk girl ...
Relevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length
... but I have been criticized for my conservatism in other regards, such as in my flat refusal to consider asking women out in the workplace, whether it’s her workplace, my workplace, or our workplace. It’s just not worth the ding if she decides that what I’ve done is inappropriate.
We have standards for a reason. There's no reason to let yourself be goaded into thinking that workplace romance is a good idea just so you can feel like you're playing "the numbers game."
It is odd that you've been both falsely accused and criticized for being conservative about the same issue, though.
You can cross the "drunk girl bridge" when and if you get to it.
Contradictions like this are why I err on the side of caution.
Not that I’ve had any opportunities to intimately interact with a drunk girl (or assault her, depending on your perspective), but I have been criticized for my conservatism in other regards, such as in my flat refusal to consider asking women out in the workplace, whether it’s her workplace, my workplace, or our workplace. It’s just not worth the ding if she decides that what I’ve done is inappropriate.
For you then, wait until you’re in a relationship to include drinking with sex. You’ll know. I would be insulted a little if a guy questioned my ability to give consent or make an advance, or I would wonder what he’s been accused of to have to turn it into this alcohol level testing. Got a breathalyzer on ya? What level is acceptable?
I’m not making fun of your questions, but the nature of your ruminating here makes it clear you would benefit MOST by getting experience. Work on that part first.
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