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Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfellowPerson
It's not obvious to me. Could you please explain? Yes, I have female friends. I've always had mostly female friends.
Because women (not all, but A LOT) have learned full well since pubescence that:
1) MANY men take any kindness, be it idle chit chat or a smile as an invitation or indication that something more than a platonic relationship might be possible so they (again, not all, but many women) err on the side of not going there so they don't get in those uncomfortable situations.
2) There is no such thing as a "non dating environment". Women (again, not all, but many) find that work, gym, school, church, in the dentist chair, shopping market, working in the garden, volunteering at an abuse shelter, running down the street, are all places that men will try to hit on them so they don't view it as "dating" vs "non dating" spaces... they can't relax about it like we can.
I'm really surprised you haven't heard oodles of stories from your female friends about guys they were just being friendly to that came on to them (hard) or being hit on in inappropriate places.
Sometimes a doctor will run diagnostic tests to eliminate certain diagnoses. I think that was part of the suggestion above. No one thinks you are doomed by your looks but rather elements evidenced in this thread.
That particular person I was responding to just wanted to know if I'm ugly (their word.) So, I was just pointing out that they seem to be of the opinion that if I'm ugly, that's probably the problem.
Women are always complaining that they can't give a man directions because he's thinking she's talking to me I can get lucky with this one . I just yelled at a friend of mine for saying those girls are deliberately trying to turn him on. Need to throw him in jail
Because women (not all, but A LOT) have learned full well since pubescence that:
1) MANY men take any kindness, be it idle chit chat or a smile as an invitation or indication that something more than a platonic relationship might be possible so they (again, not all, but many women) err on the side of not going there so they don't get in those uncomfortable situations.
2) There is no such thing as a "non dating environment". Women (again, not all, but many) find that work, gym, school, church, in the dentist chair, shopping market, working in the garden, volunteering at an abuse shelter, running down the street, are all places that men will try to hit on them so they don't view it as "dating" vs "non dating" spaces... they can't relax about it like we can.
I'm really surprised you haven't heard oodles of stories from your female friends about guys they were just being friendly to that came on to them (hard) or being hit on in inappropriate places.
I'm pleasantly surprised to read your words. Not only do I know these things, but they were part of my awakening over twenty years ago to the world of hostility that women face. This knowledge has shaped my beliefs and behaviors for almost twenty-five years. I believe there is a vicious cycle of men taking their chances "just in case" women might be interested, which causes many women to put up defenses against inevitable advances from men.
I posted about this in May. My basic theory is that I don't believe it's okay to "take my chances," when women are the ones who pay the price for those unwanted advances. (I go into greater detail in that post.) The overwhelming response to that post was negative. Overall, people seem to think that I have a fear of rejection, or that there is something wrong with me. Or that I'm lying.
So, rather than argue with everybody, I'm trying to respond as thoughtfully as possible, taking their point of view seriously. Some people have suggested that a shared-interest environment might be more suitable for my personality; one in which women might feel more comfortable interacting with me. So, this is why I'm mentioning the experiences I've had while volunteering.
However, your post seems to indicate that this is just "how it is." If that's the case, then I guess my question would be: how does anyone make their peace with this?
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfellowPerson
However, your post seems to indicate that this is just "how it is." If that's the case, then I guess my question would be: how does anyone make their peace with this?
Make peace with what? There is nothing to make peace with. Women let you know if there is some interest, and when there is, politely ask them out. On rare occasion I'll misread someone, but that's rather rare, and in that case they convey they're thanks but no thanks in a variety of ways and I move on. Simple. No peace to be made. On occasion if I'm not sure there is interest, I might take a bigger chance (generally in a situation where I've only had a little bit to interact and I'm unlikely to see them again randomly), but again, if it is the proper time and place, and done politely and cooly, its not going to to bother any, or many, people. Just don't be a creep that can't read body language at all, and know when the proper time and place is. But for Christ sake, don't roosterblock thyself. That makes no sense.
However, your post seems to indicate that this is just "how it is." If that's the case, then I guess my question would be: how does anyone make their peace with this?
The question is WHY do you feel compelled to try and take on this aspect of the human condition??? It's a Quixotic fight.
The entire universe is based on this kind of push/pull conflict. The weak force and strong force. In the animal world, predators pursue prey. And (in general) men pursue women. That's the way it's always been. Only in modern times have we begun to question that.
But I have never ever heard of a man making "not dating" a personal stand against the "injustices" women suffer just by being here. That's why it sounds like a coping skill you've come up with that you're not even aware of.
Make peace with what? There is nothing to make peace with. Women let you know if there is some interest, and when there is, politely ask them out. On rare occasion I'll misread someone, but that's rather rare, and in that case they convey they're thanks but no thanks in a variety of ways and I move on. Simple. No peace to be made. On occasion if I'm not sure there is interest, I might take a bigger chance (generally in a situation where I've only had a little bit to interact and I'm unlikely to see them again randomly), but again, if it is the proper time and place, and done politely and cooly, its not going to to bother any, or many, people. Just don't be a creep that can't read body language at all, and know when the proper time and place is. But for Christ sake, don't roosterblock thyself. That makes no sense.
I'm referring to making peace with the world of hostility that men invariably contribute to when they take their chances "just in case" she might be interested in him.
Besides that, I wasn't talking about women having "interest" in me anyway. I'm referring to casual interactions here, regarding the shared-interest group activity, and maybe even some small talk. My observation is that it's men and married women who interact with me. Your response here seems to imply that the single women would only talk to me if they have interest in me? Isn't that a common misconception among men, that if a women is friendly, she is interested?
The question is WHY do you feel compelled to try and take on this aspect of the human condition??? It's a Quixotic fight.
The entire universe is based on this kind of push/pull conflict. The weak force and strong force. In the animal world, predators pursue prey. And (in general) men pursue women. That's the way it's always been. Only in modern times have we begun to question that.
But I have never ever heard of a man making "not dating" a personal stand against the "injustices" women suffer just by being here. That's why it sounds like a coping skill you've come up with that you're not even aware of.
I know you have mentioned before that you think I'm trying to make up for what other men have done, but that is simply not the case. I've only ever claimed to be erring on the side of caution, because the vast majority of women will NOT be interested, and whatever my needs, they pale in comparison to the price women pay. To have an agenda only contributes to that hostile environment. Once my eyes were opened to this phenomenon, I couldn't make my peace with it. I'm openly wondering now how anyone makes their peace with this.
The suggestion that I've recently responded to, was that if I go to shared-interest environments, I might have the opportunity to interact with a variety of men and women without that baggage of implied "interest" just because I'm a man.
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