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True, the two things aren't necessarily related: aggressive men and dysfunctional relationships. I just find it unlikely that I just happen to have only met women whose husbands were the aggressor, and that there are aggressive women out there somewhere who I haven't met. Since I'm passive myself, wouldn't I be less likely to meet a passive woman?
I'm not sure if you and I are defining aggressive the same way. Do you mean someone who is pushy and forceful, and possibly violent, or do you mean someone who is assertive? It is possible to be assertive without being aggressive, although for passive people being assertive can feel wrong, as though they are actually being aggressive.
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Originally Posted by AfellowPerson
Since I'm passive myself, wouldn't I be less likely to meet a passive woman?
You're less likely to meet any kind of women if you're not putting yourself out there. I know a guy who is non-macho and more passive than the average guy, which he's not afraid to admit, but he actively puts himself out there and looks for the kind of woman that fits his personality. In fact, after a dry spell of a few years, he's in a relationship right now that has lasted close to a year land may last much longer.
But maybe you find it hard to sell yourself or maybe you'd rather be chased instead of doing the chasing, and that will make it harder to find someone. For either of those scenarios you probably won't have much luck in a bar and would do better instead if you took up some sort of hobby.
Have you thought about cosplay or something related? Some of the women that are interested in that don't feel as restricted by traditional gender roles. Also, anything sci-fi related. Nerdy women are less likely to have princess fantasies.
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Originally Posted by AfellowPerson
Also, I'm skeptical of the idea that a man could be interested in the whole package, when he hasn't met her yet.
Yeah, I am too. What does that have to do with anything? But most men decide, say, after they get out of high school or college, that they want more than just someone who's not just good in bed, but also someone who they can talk to that they care about.
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Originally Posted by AfellowPerson
As I mentioned in a previous comment, people are more likely to idealize people they find attractive.
Yeah, in middle school, when we have crushes and idealize people from afar. In high school most of us figure out that personality is important too, and hopefully by the time we reach 30 or so we realize that personality wins out over looks every time.
Do you disagree that if there's a paradigm related to the way people get together, at least typically it's that we notice people's looks and signal or approach people we find physically appealing? Not everyone operates that way, but most people do. I think it's safe to say that's it's pretty much how were designed, exceptions aside.
And people who aren't first attracted to someone's looks still find ways to connect with others. Maybe you'd be better off getting to know single women and then asking those you find appealing on whatever criteria if they'd like to go hang. There's nothing inherently or normatively wrong with expressing interest in a polite, respectful way.
I think it would be wonderful to be able to meet single women and get to know them. Unfortunately, I find that it just doesn't happen. I'm sure there are single women around, but they don't talk to me. For instance, I was at an opening-night party at a theater, and the women I met were married. I wouldn't say there were no single women there, it was probably more likely that they just didn't talk to me. In fact, even at work, there have been women who were single who never said a single word to me, until the day they got back from their honeymoon.
The women who talk to me, mostly, are married women. They get to know me, and many have told me that they've never met a man like me, and wish their husband was more like me.
Why don't you ask these married women to fix you up on a blind date with one of their friends, relatives, coworkers, neighbors?
If you are unattractive why aren't you making yourself more attractive?
Perhaps you have low testosterone so see an endocrinologist. Testosterone gives men energy, sex drive, confidence and better overall health and mood. It helps burn off that belly fat, too
I'm not sure if you and I are defining aggressive the same way. Do you mean someone who is pushy and forceful, and possibly violent, or do you mean someone who is assertive? It is possible to be assertive without being aggressive, although for passive people being assertive can feel wrong, as though they are actually being aggressive.
You're less likely to meet any kind of women if you're not putting yourself out there. I know a guy who is non-macho and more passive than the average guy, which he's not afraid to admit, but he actively puts himself out there and looks for the kind of woman that fits his personality. In fact, after a dry spell of a few years, he's in a relationship right now that has lasted close to a year land may last much longer.
But maybe you find it hard to sell yourself or maybe you'd rather be chased instead of doing the chasing, and that will make it harder to find someone. For either of those scenarios you probably won't have much luck in a bar and would do better instead if you took up some sort of hobby.
Have you thought about cosplay or something related? Some of the women that are interested in that don't feel as restricted by traditional gender roles. Also, anything sci-fi related. Nerdy women are less likely to have princess fantasies.
True, our definitions are probably different. My definition of "aggressive" is probably what you would call assertive. However, the reason I feel the way I do is because of many reactions I've observed in everyday moments (asking if a seat is taken, for example.) Specifically, even if I'm just minding my own business, my behavior might be seen as possibly aggressive or opportunistic. Over the years, I've taken these moments to heart and tried to do better next time.
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Originally Posted by Summer'sBreeze
Yeah, in middle school, when we have crushes and idealize people from afar. In high school most of us figure out that personality is important too, and hopefully by the time we reach 30 or so we realize that personality wins out over looks every time.
I was actually referring to adults. This has been confirmed by a study where people (adults) met each other, and they were asked to rate two things: how attractive the person was, and the level of chemistry. The study found that when we're attracted to someone, we're more likely to see chemistry that's not really there. The study found that we're actually more likely to get struck by lightning (less than 1 in 50,000) than we are to meet someone where there is mutual attraction.
I think it would be wonderful to be able to meet single women and get to know them. Unfortunately, I find that it just doesn't happen. I'm sure there are single women around, but they don't talk to me. For instance, I was at an opening-night party at a theater, and the women I met were married. I wouldn't say there were no single women there, it was probably more likely that they just didn't talk to me. In fact, even at work, there have been women who were single who never said a single word to me, until the day they got back from their honeymoon.
When someone has always had bad luck in the past with whatever they're attempting to do the expectation is that things will always be that way, and if they try again their expectation of failure often causes them to do the same things that caused the failure in the first place. It's a tough cycle to break. I understand why you gave up in the past. I would have done the same. It beats getting your hopes up only to have them dashed once again.
You might be putting too much emphasis and pressure on any interactions you have with single women, which will cause them to feel pressured and want to run away and will cause you to not act like yourself.
Maybe you could see if a doctor will prescribe you an anti-anxiety medication and you also might want to try taking a course on meeting women–one that will help you to stop focusing so much on results worrying about making mistakes. Udemy seems to have a few good ones. Any course that teaches a person how to relax about making mistakes is probably good.
Then you can learn how to relax more in dating-type situations and get to know women as plain old people, just like you already do with the married women you know.
Afellow, I realize I've made some assumptions about you that may not be true, but it's been in an attempt to give useful advice. I hope I haven't offended you.
I have been through some of the same things you described, though it's been easier for me, being a female and not having to work so hard at putting myself out there. But I do relate to some of the things you've mentioned. I hope things go well for you, whether you decide to try dating again or not.
When someone has always had bad luck in the past with whatever they're attempting to do the expectation is that things will always be that way, and if they try again their expectation of failure often causes them to do the same things that caused the failure in the first place. It's a tough cycle to break. I understand why you gave up in the past. I would have done the same. It beats getting your hopes up only to have them dashed once again.
You might be putting too much emphasis and pressure on any interactions you have with single women, which will cause them to feel pressured and want to run away and will cause you to not act like yourself.
Maybe you could see if a doctor will prescribe you an anti-anxiety medication and you also might want to try taking a course on meeting women–one that will help you to stop focusing so much on results worrying about making mistakes. Udemy seems to have a few good ones. Any course that teaches a person how to relax about making mistakes is probably good.
Then you can learn how to relax more in dating-type situations and get to know women as plain old people, just like you already do with the married women you know.
Afellow, I realize I've made some assumptions about you that may not be true, but it's been in an attempt to give useful advice. I hope I haven't offended you.
I have been through some of the same things you described, though it's been easier for me, being a female and not having to work so hard at putting myself out there. But I do relate to some of the things you've mentioned. I hope things go well for you, whether you decide to try dating again or not.
I appreciate your feedback. Some of it is probably spot on. Overall, I've been pretty pleased with the responses to this thread. Lots of food for thought.
One thing that might surprise you is that I never actually tried to date. At my most optimistic, I was just hoping to MEET people. Occasionally I had romantic daydreams, but they were always sort of abstract and I never carried those over to reality. So, in that sense, maybe I was a little TOO grounded in reality to pursue those dreams.
Anyone who thinks to reply to this thread should read your initial thread from May, where we discussed at length your ... unconventional ... approach to dating. That is ... that you NEVER approach.
Yes, of course dating apps are skewed toward attractive people, even though the definition of attractive will vary from person to person. But the fact remains that more men initiate dating-related interactions than women do, and whatever explanation you choose for NOT following that tradition is your own decision.
But decisions have consequences.
Wow, thanks Birdie lol, I saw your post just in time, right before I was going to reply... I know the OP isn't looking for pity but I almost felt sorry for him... reading that he doesn't approach women changed things.
So OP, you not approaching women will definitely make things harder for you! You may not be attractive but you striking a conversation with someone could at least lead to more conversations and a friendship which could lead to a romantic relationship. As a man, you can't be serious about dating... So after seeing that what you have been doing isn't bringing the desired results, why not try making the first move?
So OP, you not approaching women will definitely make things harder for you! You may not be attractive but you striking a conversation with someone could at least lead to more conversations and a friendship which could lead to a romantic relationship. As a man, you can't be serious about dating... So after seeing that what you have been doing isn't bringing the desired results, why not try making the first move?
The whole process of approaching someone feels random to me. This is why my previous post was asking about learning to read signals. I had heard from a number of people that women sometimes send signals that she would be okay with an approach, but I saw no evidence of that. I figured, if I was going to consider making contact with someone, rather than just randomly approaching the first woman I see, maybe if there was a way to tell if someone were amenable to my advances, then that could decide for me which person to approach. The responses to that post pretty much dismissed that theory anyway. Ultimately, you could say this has been more of a quest for knowledge than anything else. This is why the things I've been exploring might seem more like science experiments.
OP should seek out S&M clubs where passive men hook up with dominatrix women
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