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It's meaningless to those that do want to have children. The odds of not being able to have children because you waited a few years are minuscule. Just like the overall chances of increased birth defects, the odds are still super super low.
What? No. Grad programs, if not paid for by someone's employers, are often covered by teaching assistantships or research assistantships (field variable). I don't know many people that paid full freight for their grad degrees, for JDs and MDs sure, but not MS or Ph.D.s.
When Auraliea pointed out that the job market was changing she wasn't wrong. Part of the reason a bachelors degree isn't as useful as it used to be is that we have entered a phase of credentialism and education inflation. While there is government aid for undergraduate education, in terms of loans and grants, this additional graduate education is no longer covered by anyone but you and the universities have every incentive to provide this education whether its needed or not because they bare no risk of loss. We have a had a problem with too many lawyers for 20 plus years and there is no incentive in the system to fix it.
When my uncle became a Pharmacist, he just need a bachelors in pharmacy to become a Pharmacist. Today to practice as Pharmacist, you need a Doctor in Pharmacy. The day to day requirements of being a Pharmacist in my uncles era were likely a lot more difficult, he still needed to know how to compound prescriptions plus he needed to know which drugs would negatively interact with other drugs. Today the educational requirements of the field went up requiring a doctorate instead of a bachelors, but the task if anything professionally is a lot less complicated. Most medications are made by manufacturer, not compounded by the Pharmacist and there are computer databases that pretty much identify which drugs should not interact with other drugs. So this additional education requirements increased the cost of entry into the profession, but didn't actually increase the productivity of the members of the profession.
This has happened in a lot of other careers. CPAs used to just need a bachelors degree now they need a masters degree to get a license, there is talk of requiring an MBA next. Less than 20 years ago one could be a Physical Therapist with just a Bachelors degree, today it requires a DPT a Doctor of Physical Therapy. Psychologists now get Psy Ds Doctors of Psychology. None of this additional education debt is being paid for by the government. None of this education debt is dischargeable in bankruptcy. [A lot of the educational debt we take on is bullsh*t. In the UK, you don't need an undergraduate degree to become a lawyer or veterinarian, there lawyers have LLBs bachelor in laws and vets there bachelors in veterinary medicine. In Australia and Eastern Europe, they don't require an undergraduate degree to become a medical doctor, you go straight from high school to medical school skipping the undergraduate degree.]
All of these people have a lot more debt just to enter these professions. This debt is going to limit your ability to buy a house, take time off work to start a family. Your student loans pretty much mean that if you have kids, they have to go to day care because you need the regular income to service your loans.
Lastly even if you are in the elect group of people who somehow get someone else to pay for your education, look at outcomes. To succeed in this career track you kind of need to not have kids. So if you are planning on having kids what is the point of this education?
My daughter is 36 and single, but she is in a committed relationship. She lives in Eugene, Oregon, her boyfriend lives in upstate New York. They've been a couple for about 5 years and he is a caretaker for his elderly parents. They skype every night. She visited him in New York 2 years ago. He visited here last year. Me met him and thoroughly approve of him (as if that makes a difference).
Someday, they are going to get together whether it's in New York or Oregon, but it might not be for some time. Obviously kids are not in the picture. As long as she is happy, we are happy.
Not sure how a relationship is sustainable with a distance like that. How did they first meet?
When Auraliea pointed out that the job market was changing she wasn't wrong. Part of the reason a bachelors degree isn't as useful as it used to be is that we have entered a phase of credentialism and education inflation. While there is government aid for undergraduate education, in terms of loans and grants, this additional graduate education is no longer covered by anyone but you and the universities have every incentive to provide this education whether its needed or not because they bare no risk of loss. We have a had a problem with too many lawyers for 20 plus years and there is no incentive in the system to fix it.
When my uncle became a Pharmacist, he just need a bachelors in pharmacy to become a Pharmacist. Today to practice as Pharmacist, you need a Doctor in Pharmacy. The day to day requirements of being a Pharmacist in my uncles era were likely a lot more difficult, he still needed to know how to compound prescriptions plus he needed to know which drugs would negatively interact with other drugs. Today the educational requirements of the field went up requiring a doctorate instead of a bachelors, but the task if anything professionally is a lot less complicated. Most medications are made by manufacturer, not compounded by the Pharmacist and there are computer databases that pretty much identify which drugs should not interact with other drugs. So this additional education requirements increased the cost of entry into the profession, but didn't actually increase the productivity of the members of the profession.
This has happened in a lot of other careers. CPAs used to just need a bachelors degree now they need a masters degree to get a license, there is talk of requiring an MBA next. Less than 20 years ago one could be a Physical Therapist with just a Bachelors degree, today it requires a DPT a Doctor of Physical Therapy. Psychologists now get Psy Ds Doctors of Psychology. None of this additional education debt is being paid for by the government. None of this education debt is dischargeable in bankruptcy. [A lot of the educational debt we take on is bullsh*t. In the UK, you don't need an undergraduate degree to become a lawyer or veterinarian, there lawyers have LLBs bachelor in laws and vets there bachelors in veterinary medicine. In Australia and Eastern Europe, they don't require an undergraduate degree to become a medical doctor, you go straight from high school to medical school skipping the undergraduate degree.]
All of these people have a lot more debt just to enter these professions. This debt is going to limit your ability to buy a house, take time off work to start a family. Your student loans pretty much mean that if you have kids, they have to go to day care because you need the regular income to service your loans.
Lastly even if you are in the elect group of people who somehow get someone else to pay for your education, look at outcomes. To succeed in this career track you kind of need to not have kids. So if you are planning on having kids what is the point of this education?
Which is why I am saying have your kids first, then later go get a graduate degree later if you are still interested in pursuing one.
I have to say, 30's isn't to bad to have childen...but...how about those in their 40s? I tend to shy away from women over 40 who still want to have children. It's kind of a catch 22, although I'd prefer to date someone without children, meeting a 40+ woman who has never been married, never had children...they sometimes feel this crunch to still have children. Or divorced with no children. You kind of wonder why they never had kids with the first husband...usually its because he never wanted to have kids.
I mean, her dating years may pass into her MID-to late-40s and then what? Never saw the appeal to being a 55 year old father dropping a 10 year old off at school with the rest of the 20 and 30 something parents. Also say good-bye your social security check or whatever you saved for retirement. With a 10 year old in your 50s, you'll be working into the grave.
I've often heard even 50-something singles complain about how they keep meeting other divorced singles their age with little kids....while they have adult kids grown and out of the house. Major deal breaker for them. Nothing worse than being out of sync with the people you keep meeting when it comes to having children at a later age.
Not at all. I'm informed. The overall risks are still very low.
Its also rather irrelevant. Unless you plan on having children with someone as a transactional relationship, most people wait until they're ready AND when they fall in love with the right person and have the right relationship with them. That DOES NOT happen on a timetable. For some, it never happens. We don't choose it or make it happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato
When Auraliea pointed out that the job market was changing she wasn't wrong. Part of the reason a bachelors degree isn't as useful as it used to be is that we have entered a phase of credentialism and education inflation. While there is government aid for undergraduate education, in terms of loans and grants, this additional graduate education is no longer covered by anyone but you and the universities have every incentive to provide this education whether its needed or not because they bare no risk of loss. We have a had a problem with too many lawyers for 20 plus years and there is no incentive in the system to fix it.
When my uncle became a Pharmacist, he just need a bachelors in pharmacy to become a Pharmacist. Today to practice as Pharmacist, you need a Doctor in Pharmacy. The day to day requirements of being a Pharmacist in my uncles era were likely a lot more difficult, he still needed to know how to compound prescriptions plus he needed to know which drugs would negatively interact with other drugs. Today the educational requirements of the field went up requiring a doctorate instead of a bachelors, but the task if anything professionally is a lot less complicated. Most medications are made by manufacturer, not compounded by the Pharmacist and there are computer databases that pretty much identify which drugs should not interact with other drugs. So this additional education requirements increased the cost of entry into the profession, but didn't actually increase the productivity of the members of the profession.
This has happened in a lot of other careers. CPAs used to just need a bachelors degree now they need a masters degree to get a license, there is talk of requiring an MBA next. Less than 20 years ago one could be a Physical Therapist with just a Bachelors degree, today it requires a DPT a Doctor of Physical Therapy. Psychologists now get Psy Ds Doctors of Psychology. None of this additional education debt is being paid for by the government. None of this education debt is dischargeable in bankruptcy. [A lot of the educational debt we take on is bullsh*t. In the UK, you don't need an undergraduate degree to become a lawyer or veterinarian, there lawyers have LLBs bachelor in laws and vets there bachelors in veterinary medicine. In Australia and Eastern Europe, they don't require an undergraduate degree to become a medical doctor, you go straight from high school to medical school skipping the undergraduate degree.]
All of these people have a lot more debt just to enter these professions. This debt is going to limit your ability to buy a house, take time off work to start a family. Your student loans pretty much mean that if you have kids, they have to go to day care because you need the regular income to service your loans.
Lastly even if you are in the elect group of people who somehow get someone else to pay for your education, look at outcomes. To succeed in this career track you kind of need to not have kids. So if you are planning on having kids what is the point of this education?
Which is why I am saying have your kids first, then later go get a graduate degree later if you are still interested in pursuing one.
You can have your kids first. No one I know did. My parents got their masters in the 60s before marrying and having a family. By bro and SIL did. My friends who got masters (or more), most of them, also did.
Location: As of 2022….back to SoCal. OC this time!
9,297 posts, read 4,570,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla
I had decided to go back to school, after I was married. To become a teacher, nurse, something different from what I had been doing. Or an MBA program. I found out you have to have a lot of references nowadays to get into most programs and especially for grad school. I had been out of college for many years and felt stupid trying to see if any old professors still remembered me from 20 years ago...the requirements and hoops to jump through felt like a game I just did not want to play, in addition to being loaded up with loans/debt. It seems it would be easier (in many cases) for a person to do these things before marriage and starting a family. And no, I'm not saying "nobody" who's married or has a family can't go back to school (so hopefully nobody with bad reading comprehension will think I'm saying that). So perhaps that is why many people put off marriage until they finish all the education they wanted to attain.
If somebody is planning to have babies.....it makes sense to hold off until you finish all your education. I was a stepmom for a short time & I honestly couldn’t see how I would of gone back to school for my MSN....& I only had him part time! But work experience is really what is important & references.......& your employer may pay. Did you ever go back?
Babies could make grad school impossible.....or really challenging.....but if a couple isn’t going to have babies, I don’t see how a marriage would make grad school any different than having a relationship.........but if O.P. wants to wait because he is young.....that’s what most do. It’s different tho if you are going back for a Masters yrs later......
I have to say, 30's isn't to bad to have childen...but...how about those in their 40s? I tend to shy away from women over 40 who still want to have children. It's kind of a catch 22, although I'd prefer to date someone without children, meeting a 40+ woman who has never been married, never had children...they sometimes feel this crunch to still have children. Or divorced with no children. You kind of wonder why they never had kids with the first husband...usually its because he never wanted to have kids.
I mean, her dating years may pass into her MID-to late-40s and then what? Never saw the appeal to being a 55 year old father dropping a 10 year old off at school with the rest of the 20 and 30 something parents. Also say good-bye your social security check or whatever you saved for retirement. With a 10 year old in your 50s, you'll be working into the grave.
I've often heard even 50-something singles complain about how they keep meeting other divorced singles their age with little kids....while they have adult kids grown and out of the house. Major deal breaker for them. Nothing worse than being out of sync with the people you keep meeting when it comes to having children at a later age.
I totally agree. The older you get the more difficulty you have sleeping, so dealing with a baby waking up every couple of hours to be fed seems insane. Lastly as you age again there are a lot of activities that I think you are going to have problems with because you just don't have the energy, so teaching your kids to play basketball or go backpacking with them become a lot more difficult because you don't have the same energy in your 50's you had when you are in your 30's.
I totally agree. The older you get the more difficulty you have sleeping, so dealing with a baby waking up every couple of hours to be fed seems insane. Lastly as you age again there are a lot of activities that I think you are going to have problems with because you just don't have the energy, so teaching your kids to play basketball or go backpacking with them become a lot more difficult because you don't have the same energy in your 50's you had when you are in your 30's.
I think the physical activity stuff is over rated. All an older parent has to do is put their kid on a sports team. You can bond with your child in other ways. Playing ball with them isn't everything. And even if it is, most people I know in their 50s are not so decrepit yet, that they can't get out and toss a ball around with their kid. Many young parents are so wrapped up in their careers, working 80 hours a week, that they pay someone else to play ball with the kid.
I think the physical activity stuff is over rated. All an older parent has to do is put their kid on a sports team. You can bond with your child in other ways. Playing ball with them isn't everything. And even if it is, most people I know in their 50s are not so decrepit yet, that they can't get out and toss a ball around with their kid. Many young parents are so wrapped up in their careers, working 80 hours a week, that they pay someone else to play ball with the kid.
I think it depends on what type of relationship you want to have with your kids. One of my friend's dad is 25 years older than his mom. He loves his dad, but he isn't doing the same stuff with his dad that I am doing with my dad. He gets annoyed that everyone thinks his dad is his grandpa.
I think it depends on what type of relationship you want to have with your kids. One of my friend's dad is 25 years older than his mom. He loves his dad, but he isn't doing the same stuff with his dad that I am doing with my dad. He gets annoyed that everyone thinks his dad is his grandpa.
And it could be worse. There are kids who don't have a father in the picture at all.
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