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I'm no rookie when it comes to hook ups but am curious if it is the same kinda thing with others who have regular f buddies. Not fwb, as they are not friends just sex.
It seems that it is always cat & mouse scenario. Like when I'm available, the other is not. Then when they reach out, I'm not available.
Is that why I end up having a roster of different people over the course of a few years, because it often just seems like cat and mouse with each one? Then finally things may click..and then it goes in circles again.
Do others have the same issue and feel the same regarding hookup arrangements?
It seems these "wise" sayings in dating, in business, in so many aspects of life, applies here as well:
"Timing is everything"
"Location, location, location"
I'm no rookie when it comes to hook ups but am curious if it is the same kinda thing with others who have regular f buddies. Not fwb, as they are not friends just sex.
It seems that it is always cat & mouse scenario. Like when I'm available, the other is not. Then when they reach out, I'm not available.
Is that why I end up having a roster of different people over the course of a few years, because it often just seems like cat and mouse with each one? Then finally things may click..and then it goes in circles again.
Do others have the same issue and feel the same regarding hookup arrangements?
It seems these "wise" sayings in dating, in business, in so many aspects of life, applies here as well:
"Timing is everything"
"Location, location, location"
I view it differently. There are way more men looking for hook ups than women willing to provide that service, so women have the market power in this part of the dating market to set the terms. Where as in the long term relationship section of the dating market, there are more women then men looking for this arrangement and men have now have the market power to set the terms.
I think a lot of it is driven by the orgasm gap and the orgasm gap gets bigger for women in hook ups.
While there are women sexually unrestricted enough to engage in a hook up, the problem for women is identifying who they think in a hook up will actually take care of their needs in that hook up.
What I would love to hear from the women who do hook ups, is what traits or behaviors do they look for to identify guys who they think will actually take the time in a hook up to take care of their needs?
Ha!! OP, yeah, I experienced that. I had a FB for about 2.5 months and the way it ended was that "cat & mouse" nonsense. All of a sudden it was just impossible to get together anymore. And it was upsettingly confusing because I felt there were underlying reasons and he didn't want to see me anymore (I mean, we sure made it happen aplenty in the first weeks!) but he simply WOULD NOT come out and be honest and plain about it. He wouldn't even admit that he didn't want to continue the thing. To this day, in fact, and I haven't seen him in 4 years, if I were to send him a message saying, "Hey, let's get together sometime! I miss your face!" I 100% guarantee that he'd be verbally very agreeable, but would flake out and it wouldn't actually happen. I could tell him what days I was available, I'd never hear back. It's just how it got, and I have no reason to think it could ever be otherwise.
I know I had some feels for him but I think I was pretty clear that I imposed nothing on him, I just wanted to keep being FB-ish. Was he put off by the sense that I was too into him?
Did he start to feel something and withdraw from me so that he would not be hurt, because of the nature of our interaction?
Was it something else?
No idea. What I do know, is that he's done this exact thing with numerous women, who generally come away confused and thinking they maybe did something wrong and not knowing what.
@shelato:
I've been willing to engage in casual dalliance during only two very limited time frames in my life (when I was not in a committed, monogamous relationship.) During the first of them I was a teenager, 14-18, and the sex I was having was not "meeting my needs" in the way you speak of, but I didn't feel it was a matter of my lovers being better or worse, I thought that was just how it was. That partnered sex did not get me off, basically. Also, I had no idea what it was that I needed or wanted. I did however enjoy some of those connections, just not in that exact way. During the second time frame, after the end of my marriage, I had some that were outright bad and I quickly dismissed from my life, a few who were fun but not a perfect right match for what I needed, one (the one I describe above) who gave me a strong taste of what I was looking for, enough for me to learn and understand it...and then I found the man I have now, who hits those notes fully, and we're planning a wedding. But what I need is not exactly typical, so I have no idea how normal women go about figuring it out and finding it or asking for it.
Honestly though I think the one thing that makes all the difference is that you can have a casual FB or FWB thing and actually care that your partner is enjoying their experience as much as you are. You don't have to be selfish and callous to the humanity of another person, just because you're averse to commitment for whatever reason. With my FB, the one I really had a good thing going on with...I never felt that he was using me for sex, or that he was getting something and I wasn't. We were both getting the same enjoyable benefits, but neither of us wanted to build a serious relationship with the other, and that was fine.
I participated in hook up culture in my early 30s. One fwb stands out in my mind. We met at a club, the guy was really very attractive, 4 years younger than me, and he was a follower of Tom Leykis ( popular radio talk show at the time in los angeles where we lived).
I knew he listened to TL and I did as well and pretty sure he found that quite charming. I disagree with a lot of what TL said, but he was a shock jock, so I didnt take it too seriously, and the guy didnt follow all his rules anyway. But it was an area we bonded in and he liked that I wasnt one of these bridezilla types trying to trap him. My mindset at the time was just lighthearted fun and he was an easy going, easy to be with, low maintenance, young man who also knew what he was doing, in bed. Win win.
He also didnt treat me like a ho, he showed just the right balance of respect, interest, treated me like a human, and made sure my needs were taken care of.
This arrangement lasted 2 years and we were pretty much available when we both wanted to get together. Every 2 or 3 weekends. We both worked so only weekends were available.
I view it differently. There are way more men looking for hook ups than women willing to provide that service, so women have the market power in this part of the dating market to set the terms. Where as in the long term relationship section of the dating market, there are more women then men looking for this arrangement and men have now have the market power to set the terms.
I think a lot of it is driven by the orgasm gap and the orgasm gap gets bigger for women in hook ups.
Since the OP is a man hooking up with men, that isn't the case here.
I view it differently. There are way more men looking for hook ups than women willing to provide that service, so women have the market power in this part of the dating market to set the terms.
I never saw that. I saw men trying to trick women into thinking something might turn into a relationship, though, when the man just wanted a one night stand.
If I were to agree to hookups, there would have to be an actual date as part of the arrangement. Not just getting together for sex only. So if we went out to a movie or dinner first, that wouldn't really be considered a hook up. But I have to spend real time with someone first, fair or not.
I never saw that. I saw men trying to trick women into thinking something might turn into a relationship, though, when the man just wanted a one night stand.
If I were to agree to hookups, there would have to be an actual date as part of the arrangement. Not just getting together for sex only. So if we went out to a movie or dinner first, that wouldn't really be considered a hook up. But I have to spend real time with someone first, fair or not.
I never saw that. I saw men trying to trick women into thinking something might turn into a relationship, though, when the man just wanted a one night stand.
If I were to agree to hookups, there would have to be an actual date as part of the arrangement. Not just getting together for sex only. So if we went out to a movie or dinner first, that wouldn't really be considered a hook up. But I have to spend real time with someone first, fair or not.
Yeah that one strikes me as bizarre, too--like I wonder how many women even exist who would get a message on the internet like "Want to come over and --nudge-nudge-Netflix & chill?" and be like "Why sure, complete stranger, that sounds fab. I'll just hop right over." Who does that?
Hooking up, to me, didn't mean this. We would at least need to either know one another and decide to have a go at some "benefits" or else at least meet up in public for a while and talk so I can get a read on the guy with my instincts and a feel for who he is a little. And only once did I go to a guy's house on a first date. I really did feel like I was living dangerously but it worked out alright.
I guess I find it a bit annoying that guys feel like they have to play some kind of a con game and get women thinking we could end up all happily-ever-after, when they just really would like to have sex. I'm like, "Bold of you to assume I want a commitment here."
I realize it's terribly antiquated and a thing of the past, but that's how a lot of women still feel. i didn't say who had to pay for the entertainment, either.
If a person wants to have quick and easy sex, they should state so from the beginning; and if they still can't find it readily they should consider a prostitute or using their own hand.
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