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OP has been living with someone for 6 years. I have to say that I would never do that. I believe in being my own person and having my own place. I would not want to commit myself to someone without the benefit of marriage.
At the same time, plenty of others (like myself) want to move in with the person before marriage, just to see how it would be living with that person day in and day out. It's one thing to go out on dates and what while not living together, it's another thing entirely to live together.
Dating these days seems to be about moving the relationship as soon as possible into a comfortable, "let's just hang out" type of thing...take off the shoes, flop on the couch, flick on the TV, and give back rubs. This is so boring IMO. No fun, no mystery, no taking time to build a solid friendship, just two bodies flopping on the couch and then ending up in bed. It was never like that in the past. In the past, the "dating" part of it lasted a lot longer and I never anticipated moving in with the person as fast as they do now. I had my own place and was my own person. Yes, I would never dream of moving in with someone without marriage.
My dates and I went on long drives in the country, went kayaking and hiking and to shows in the city and to flea markets and we spent time together doing fun and worthwhile things. I don't see that now. There are a few coffee or dinner dates and then the two people end up on the couch watching TV and talking about moving in together.
OP has been living with someone for 6 years. I have to say that I would never do that. I believe in being my own person and having my own place. I would not want to commit myself to someone without the benefit of marriage.
If you don't want to live with someone, then don't. Certainly there is no reason to do something you don't want to do.
I don't know what sort of people you are observing, but I see plenty of people who go on plenty of fun dates. And I hear people talking about fun dates. So I conclude that fun dates have not stopped happening.
I assume that you don't mean "these days" in terms of the whole pandemic situation, because that definitely changes things a lot, but it's taught me something.
Normally, I'm out socializing in a big way with lots of people. I found a community of like-minded folks to be friends with. If I were single, I'd have a lot of options there. But that's not the point I'm getting at though. I normally am the kind of extroverted person who just loves people. I like my alone time, too, but I don't hate humanity in general. I have friendly exchanges all day every day, with all sorts. I see other people as like books full of stories, and I enjoy them about as much (I am a voracious reader.) I want to know about the lives they've lived, that have brought them to be who they are today, the things they've learned, the experiences they've had, the places they've been. I think that people are great!
But not as much lately.
Because I've been shut in my home, like so many people, and I've not been engaging in much face-to-face socializing. I've been on Facebook too much, I've been here. Once in a while I do a Zoom with my community fam, but I tell ya...it's just not enough to replace what I had. And the internet, just isn't a good look for people in general. People who would speak civilly to you in person, even in the face of great disagreement, and be able to have a respectful interchange, are insulting and extreme online. And even some of my family who have different views, are so stressed and keyed up by current events that they're becoming nastier with me on the phone.
And I'd have thought that I'd be pining for my social activities, but more and more, I'm just like, "People need to stay away from me, leave me alone, I want to read and sleep and avoid humans." I am more grumpy and impatient with others, than normal. I KNOW this isn't me. But if I, under the influence of this mindset, were a single woman and single men were trying to connect with me, I'd pretty much feel, "Ugh, get away from me" on some level towards anybody. It's not them, it's me, and more significantly my urge to push people away and be comfortable and safe in my solitude.
But the life I am living now, is similar to the lives I know many people live anyways. They say that they are introverts, but before the internet blew up like this, and before the advent of really immersive video games and social media and streaming movies and TV....were there so many people who professed to dislike humanity and who wanted just to be left alone?
It is so much easier to ascribe bad motivations and bad character assumptions onto people when you never look them in the eye and interact with them on a personal, face-to-face level. When you don't hear their feelings in their voices, but only see words on a screen. I do think that to some extent, there have been changes to the human creature, I feel that so many things have conspired to make the first generation that grew up with all of this technology (not to mention many other socio-political events and the general state of things)...rather cynical. There are probably more people who struggle to find and engage in real connection, than there used to be.
But that's just a theory, though...
Let me distinguish between shyness introversion and depression. I am introverted, but I am not shy. Introversion has to do with the dopamine receptors you have and your sensitivity to dopamine. If I have to interact with a lot of people I feel overwhelmed and a little anxious. I need some downtime after interacting with a lot of people. People like you have more dopamine receptors, with you are interacting with a lot of people you are getting the stimulation you enjoy if you go to a large party you likely don't need any downtime afterwards. Now I am not shy. I love public speaking, at funerals and weddings usually I am the first person to speak and I enjoy doing that. I enjoyed acting and being on stage. I don't have a problem with approaching and talking to people. Shyness is the fear of an adverse judgement and I really don't have that.
Now the last thing is depression. The quarantine means that gyms are closed and lots of people are getting a lot less exercise than normal. Exercise is a natural anti-depressant. (It raises BDNF) There is a certain amount of stress from just watching the news, depression is also contagious, if you are around people who are stressed or depressed, your mirror neurons are going to spread it to you. The comfort foods (junk food) that people are eating to deal with the stress tends to have less omega 3s than healthier foods and so if you are your house mates are eating that stuff that will also contribute to depression. What I am getting at is you might be dealing with your son and while he is coming off weed (which is great long term goal, he might be dealing with some depression, because he either had that before and was self mediating with weed to not deal with his depression or he might just have some depression because his weed use temporarily screwed up his dopamine receptors and until his body resets to the new normal he is a bit grumpy. ) But depression is not introversion and its not shyness either. But know this if you can still keep exercising, the exercise will raise you BDNF and help fight a low level depression in you and you being less depressed. If you can get your son to exercise, even better for both of you.
Let me distinguish between shyness introversion and depression. I am introverted, but I am not shy. Introversion has to do with the dopamine receptors you have and your sensitivity to dopamine. If I have to interact with a lot of people I feel overwhelmed and a little anxious. I need some downtime after interacting with a lot of people. People like you have more dopamine receptors, with you are interacting with a lot of people you are getting the stimulation you enjoy if you go to a large party you likely don't need any downtime afterwards. Now I am not shy. I love public speaking, at funerals and weddings usually I am the first person to speak and I enjoy doing that. I enjoyed acting and being on stage. I don't have a problem with approaching and talking to people. Shyness is the fear of an adverse judgement and I really don't have that.
Now the last thing is depression. The quarantine means that gyms are closed and lots of people are getting a lot less exercise than normal. Exercise is a natural anti-depressant. (It raises BDNF) There is a certain amount of stress from just watching the news, depression is also contagious, if you are around people who are stressed or depressed, your mirror neurons are going to spread it to you. The comfort foods (junk food) that people are eating to deal with the stress tends to have less omega 3s than healthier foods and so if you are your house mates are eating that stuff that will also contribute to depression. What I am getting at is you might be dealing with your son and while he is coming off weed (which is great long term goal, he might be dealing with some depression, because he either had that before and was self mediating with weed to not deal with his depression or he might just have some depression because his weed use temporarily screwed up his dopamine receptors and until his body resets to the new normal he is a bit grumpy. ) But depression is not introversion and its not shyness either. But know this if you can still keep exercising, the exercise will raise you BDNF and help fight a low level depression in you and you being less depressed. If you can get your son to exercise, even better for both of you.
Thanks, shelato! Yeah, I've been continuing with the hiking and encouraging my son to do that, too.
It's all rather strange. I don't feel depressed. I just feel kind of blankly...fine? OK? Even good? But when other people disturb the serenity of my still waters, I kind of want to brush them off and make them go away. I'm normally much more engaging with others. Right now I'm a bit short and kinda want to be left to myself. Not to sit alone and feel sorry for myself, no. For the feeling of peace.
Normally I get bored, restless and irritable if I'm alone too much. So I go get my "people time" and that resets my frame of mind and I feel better. Whether that is a small group setting or a big party, but it can't just be the people I live with because I'm looking for new stimulation, new conversations and ideas.
But I feel all flipped about right now. Interaction with others seems more likely to make me feel irritable, activities done in serene silence by myself...reading, hiking...that is what feels awesome right now. (Though spending 1-1 time with fiance is also great, we've been playing board games, watching movies and shows, talking, sex, snuggles and so on...that is peaceful and happy and good, too.)
And lest we get too off in the weeds, I can definitely say that if I were single, I would not be able to deal with online dating right now. That kind of interaction would drive me up the wall. I would probably say lots of rude things to men who don't deserve it. So I'm quite glad I'm not in that situation right now.
But I feel like these responses...irritability, feeling "recharged" or feeling exhausted, by social interaction or by solitude...the feelings that nudge people towards one thing or the other as a preference... I often wonder, in a "chicken and egg" kind of way, if a tendency of an individual to practice more face to face interaction (rather than online) would perhaps wire their brains more towards extroversion somewhat, and an individual's tendency to avoid that in favor of online interpersonal engagement instead, could wire them towards introversion? Because I really started to notice this shift in myself, the less face-to-face time I've been getting, and the more screen-based engagement...
Introversion/extroversion is about dopamine receptors. The reason you were more extroverted than me is likely you just have more dopamine receptors, so you just aren't getting overstimulated by dealing with new people. I doubt that has changed in you because we are under quarantine, so I am thinking this is not the likely explanation.
But the things you are describing are consistent with a low level depression. With more severe depression there can be difficulty getting out of bed, thoughts of self harm, but low level depression, can be feeling exhausted, some irritability. So is self isolation. I am not saying you are dealing with a major depression. Depression is also contagious. Your son was using a lot of pot likely for a reason. Usually to avoid confronting some **** in his own life. With the pot being less able to mask it, he likely is dealing with depression. You and him are both at home and there isn't much exercise going on because of the quarantine. There is also just the news right now, its not really uplifting, I think that stuff effects us more than we acknowledge. When you got exercise you felt better. That is the BDNF going up. Try to eat more wild fish for the omega 3s, maybe some nuts.
Introversion/extroversion is about dopamine receptors. The reason you were more extroverted than me is likely you just have more dopamine receptors, so you just aren't getting overstimulated by dealing with new people. I doubt that has changed in you because we are under quarantine, so I am thinking this is not the likely explanation.
But the things you are describing are consistent with a low level depression. With more severe depression there can be difficulty getting out of bed, thoughts of self harm, but low level depression, can be feeling exhausted, some irritability. So is self isolation. I am not saying you are dealing with a major depression. Depression is also contagious. Your son was using a lot of pot likely for a reason. Usually to avoid confronting some **** in his own life. With the pot being less able to mask it, he likely is dealing with depression. You and him are both at home and there isn't much exercise going on because of the quarantine. There is also just the news right now, its not really uplifting, I think that stuff effects us more than we acknowledge. When you got exercise you felt better. That is the BDNF going up. Try to eat more wild fish for the omega 3s, maybe some nuts.
LOL I read that thing and I kind of (weirdly) identify more "introvert" with how stuff feels for me. I've got a serious love of books and puzzles. Nothing can really compete with them, for me. What they talk about with the feeling overstimulated, makes me think of when I'm at a larger social gathering, I feel that too-much, buzzy impatience and overstimulation if I've interacted with one small group for too long and I've got to disengage and move away. I don't see big parties as one big group and a large net effect, necessarily, but a collection of micro-settings that I move from one to another. Actually...ha!...germaine to the present conversation, the last time I attended a party at the club before all of this quarantine sitch went down, they had a jigsaw out on a table and I spent pretty much the whole time working on it. Whole place full of dressed up sexy interesting people and there I am with my tiny lamp in my little bubble, in a dimly lit room, doing a puzzle. I love to challenge myself to react to things in the opposite way than what is usual. Like roller coasters. I'd rather completely relax myself, go limp and loose, and reach for a kind of calm, not tensing and screaming my head off. You can change an experience with how you mindfully react to it, I've found.
Meh, I dunno. It might be more complex than every individual being precisely and only one thing or another thing. (Damned interesting though! You always have such good sources to look at--I dig that about you!)
But again, gotta be careful, shelato. We can get dinged for going all off topic-y like. (But for real, message me anytime if you want to chat, it's been a while--or we can talk in Psych subforum! )
To try and refocus...
Quote:
Originally Posted by araziel
Hi all,
I have been with my significant other for 6 years. I get told often I am very lucky because dating during this time and in this generation (millennials) is very hard. I am really curious why do people say this? What is it about dating in our generation do people find so hard? what values and rules have changed from previous generations?
I would love to hear everyones opinion on this!!
...in the greater social sense, I do think that a lot of things have changed.
Whether it is harder or easier probably depends a lot on who you are and what you want.
For one thing, I think that in "previous generations" as you put it, there was a culture where everyone felt that they could make certain assumptions that were linked to social norms and associated rewards and punishments from society. Conformity was more enforced. People had fewer choices, about who they wanted to be, what they wanted in dating, love, lifestyles, you name it. How to live life. Everything. For some of us, having more choices and freedom to make them, is glorious. For some of us, getting away from assumptions and expecting more communication instead, is best.
But I know a lot of people, and this here forum is frequented by them I think, who are rather flustered by it all...scared to ask the questions, nervous about communicating with someone they are dating or partnered to, and who feel safer turning to a group of strangers on the internet ("society") to tell them what is the normal that they should feel ENTITLED to expect, assume, reinforce. If something that they agree with is normative, affirmed by the group, then they can be right, and the other person wrong, even if they never talk about it?? Well, I don't care to operate that way, personally. I am fine with that sort of behavior becoming somewhat anachronistic.
But is it, though? I think that there are still lots and lots of dating "conservatives" or traditionalists out there. And there's not anything truly wrong with it so long as we're not beating one another over the head with our ideologies. I mean, one way might be a lot better for ME, but I am not so egotistical as to believe that makes it objectively better.
i think its becuz there are so many protocols that most would prefer to remian single than be dubbed desparate.
like yoo cant call anyone becuz txting is kooler now (and now facelooking/twistering/instajamming/snapping is the new txting).
yoo have to wait 1 - 3 hourz/days before responding or else theyll think youre too thirsty.
yoo have to pretend like the one yoo like is like your 3rd option so that yoo dont come across as needy.
i dont think we're socially allowed to ask for fone-#'s in public anymore. i think the method is now to hunt for them online then send them a friend request.
maybe also there is less effort put into making relationships work. if someone is 5 pounds too heavy then yoo can easily swipe/snap/poke/thumbs up/follow/... someone else. whereas 20 years ago, yoo only met about a dozen potentials in a lifetime so you were less likely to flake out or ghost.
interesting timing of this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathias_north
I am a male in his mid 30s, and have been very often told that to attract girls one should have a kind of 'play hard to get' behavior, which includes:
- not coming across as needy, by showing that one is too emotionally involved, or by conveying the message that she is the only girl interested in us
- not replying to texts right away, so as to show that one has a full social life, and other things to do
- not texting twice if she does not reply, or at least wait a suitable amount of time
- not showing that one has been affected when she cancels a date other things along these lines.
I have been often wondering about the true effectiveness of this behavior in triggering attraction. Some claim that this is just not the way it works: if someone is interested, she is interested no matter whether we use these behaviors or not. Others claim that this may make a big difference. Obviously, this behavior will make no difference in cases where the girl is not interested at all, or very very interested.
So I would like to stimulate a discussion on this forum, where **female** users honestly write whether this kind of behavior (or a specific item in the list) has triggered their attraction towards a male, and made a substantial difference between things working out or not.
The answer may be age-dependent, so please be specific about your age range to make the discussion more interesting!
I have been with my significant other for 6 years. I get told often I am very lucky because dating during this time and in this generation (millennials) is very hard. I am really curious why do people say this? What is it about dating in our generation do people find so hard? what values and rules have changed from previous generations?
I would love to hear everyones opinion on this!!
Anybody who says basic values and rules have changed is an idiot. Our DNA has not changed. Nor has the human psyche. Societal mores have changed, but the basics of human interaction and attraction have not. It doesn't matter if you're dating online or meeting people the traditional way. If you keep getting rejected, it's you, not them.
Dating is only hard if you lack social skills, lack self-esteem, and lack consideration for others. Show me anyone with a Sad Sack story about how they can't find someone and I'll show you someone who hasn't mastered the basic self-awareness to answer the question: Am I worth someone else's time?
Instead, they nurse these convoluted, mechanistic theories about how women want Bad Boys, how women chase men who make lots of money, how men are just looking to get laid, ad infinitum.
They need these theories because they lack the innate wisdom and courage to confront their own attitudes and actions. They can't hack the reality that person after person looks at them and says, "Nope. Can't do it."
It's pretty damned easy to be in a relationship once you recognize and act on these basic principles:
1) You don't need a relationship to have value. Life the fullest, most interesting possible life, and the romance thing takes care of itself. By that I don't mean non-stop frenetic activity. I mean, find your passions in life and really own them. Read interesting books. Always be trying new things. The world is one big, damned banquet and some of you people are choosing to starve to death.
So by not making being in a relationship your end-all, be-all in life, you suddenly become a much more desirable person. Yeah, it's a little bit of jujitsu, but it doesn't make things less true.
2) Be a little selfless in life. Do you ever listen to yourself talk? I mean, really listen? Because too many confuse long downloads for conversation. Yet the bulk of conversation is listening and really understanding the person. It's not a gift. It's a carefully acquired skill. Be aware of the other person's needs, whether it's at the dinner table, the party, or even in the sack. And respond accordingly.
3) Trust is the foundation of any relationship. Whether it's your spouse, your romantic interest, your colleague in the next cubicle, or whoever else, there's no relationship without trust. Be a trustworthy person in life. And by that I don't just mean ethics. I mean from a personality standpoint. Random displays of temper, mood swings, are impulsive behavior (Different than being spontaneous, by the way) are big, fat yellow flags for those around you.
4) Everyone is an individual. They have their own personal story, fears, goals, and general approach to life. Your goal, especially in the opening phases of a budding relationship, is to understand that person and treat him or her accordingly.
5) Be discriminating. If someone doesn't make you feel good about yourself, move on. At the same time, recognize that you might not be all that yourself.
Anybody who says basic values and rules have changed is an idiot. Our DNA has not changed. Nor has the human psyche. Societal mores have changed, but the basics of human interaction and attraction have not. It doesn't matter if you're dating online or meeting people the traditional way. If you keep getting rejected, it's you, not them.
Dating is only hard if you lack social skills, lack self-esteem, and lack consideration for others. Show me anyone with a Sad Sack story about how they can't find someone and I'll show you someone who hasn't mastered the basic self-awareness to answer the question: Am I worth someone else's time?
Instead, they nurse these convoluted, mechanistic theories about how women want Bad Boys, how women chase men who make lots of money, how men are just looking to get laid, ad infinitum.
They need these theories because they lack the innate wisdom and courage to confront their own attitudes and actions. They can't hack the reality that person after person looks at them and says, "Nope. Can't do it."
It's pretty damned easy to be in a relationship once you recognize and act on these basic principles:
1) You don't need a relationship to have value. Life the fullest, most interesting possible life, and the romance thing takes care of itself. By that I don't mean non-stop frenetic activity. I mean, find your passions in life and really own them. Read interesting books. Always be trying new things. The world is one big, damned banquet and some of you people are choosing to starve to death.
So by not making being in a relationship your end-all, be-all in life, you suddenly become a much more desirable person. Yeah, it's a little bit of jujitsu, but it doesn't make things less true.
2) Be a little selfless in life. Do you ever listen to yourself talk? I mean, really listen? Because too many confuse long downloads for conversation. Yet the bulk of conversation is listening and really understanding the person. It's not a gift. It's a carefully acquired skill. Be aware of the other person's needs, whether it's at the dinner table, the party, or even in the sack. And respond accordingly.
3) Trust is the foundation of any relationship. Whether it's your spouse, your romantic interest, your colleague in the next cubicle, or whoever else, there's no relationship without trust. Be a trustworthy person in life. And by that I don't just mean ethics. I mean from a personality standpoint. Random displays of temper, mood swings, are impulsive behavior (Different than being spontaneous, by the way) are big, fat yellow flags for those around you.
4) Everyone is an individual. They have their own personal story, fears, goals, and general approach to life. Your goal, especially in the opening phases of a budding relationship, is to understand that person and treat him or her accordingly.
5) Be discriminating. If someone doesn't make you feel good about yourself, move on. At the same time, recognize that you might not be all that yourself.
There is too much truth in this post. Lately you have really been hitting out of the park.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,937 posts, read 36,951,955 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
Anybody who says basic values and rules have changed is an idiot. Our DNA has not changed. Nor has the human psyche. Societal mores have changed, but the basics of human interaction and attraction have not. It doesn't matter if you're dating online or meeting people the traditional way. If you keep getting rejected, it's you, not them.
Dating is only hard if you lack social skills, lack self-esteem, and lack consideration for others. Show me anyone with a Sad Sack story about how they can't find someone and I'll show you someone who hasn't mastered the basic self-awareness to answer the question: Am I worth someone else's time?
Instead, they nurse these convoluted, mechanistic theories about how women want Bad Boys, how women chase men who make lots of money, how men are just looking to get laid, ad infinitum.
They need these theories because they lack the innate wisdom and courage to confront their own attitudes and actions. They can't hack the reality that person after person looks at them and says, "Nope. Can't do it."
It's pretty damned easy to be in a relationship once you recognize and act on these basic principles:
1) You don't need a relationship to have value. Life the fullest, most interesting possible life, and the romance thing takes care of itself. By that I don't mean non-stop frenetic activity. I mean, find your passions in life and really own them. Read interesting books. Always be trying new things. The world is one big, damned banquet and some of you people are choosing to starve to death.
So by not making being in a relationship your end-all, be-all in life, you suddenly become a much more desirable person. Yeah, it's a little bit of jujitsu, but it doesn't make things less true.
2) Be a little selfless in life. Do you ever listen to yourself talk? I mean, really listen? Because too many confuse long downloads for conversation. Yet the bulk of conversation is listening and really understanding the person. It's not a gift. It's a carefully acquired skill. Be aware of the other person's needs, whether it's at the dinner table, the party, or even in the sack. And respond accordingly.
3) Trust is the foundation of any relationship. Whether it's your spouse, your romantic interest, your colleague in the next cubicle, or whoever else, there's no relationship without trust. Be a trustworthy person in life. And by that I don't just mean ethics. I mean from a personality standpoint. Random displays of temper, mood swings, are impulsive behavior (Different than being spontaneous, by the way) are big, fat yellow flags for those around you.
4) Everyone is an individual. They have their own personal story, fears, goals, and general approach to life. Your goal, especially in the opening phases of a budding relationship, is to understand that person and treat him or her accordingly.
5) Be discriminating. If someone doesn't make you feel good about yourself, move on. At the same time, recognize that you might not be all that yourself.
solid take
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