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Self-consciousness is a killer because it comes across as disinterest to someone new.
I agree with zentropa. Deliberately place your focus on others and getting to know them, rather than what you presume they are thinking a bout you.
I never really thought about it like that. That's good to know. I would've never guessed being quiet could be mistaken for disinterest; probably because it isn't disinterest to me. Plus speaking in groups gets awkward because I feel like I can't get a word in anyway.
I'm fairly new to dating. My first date was when I was 27 so almost 3 years ago. Since then, I've been on 5 first dates. Last 2 were in February. With the virus, I'm not too concerned with dating at the moment..
My dating profiles are accurate and my pictures definitely look like me. But I deleted them a couple of weeks ago. Just, wasn't getting any replies and my job hunt is more important.
Not a single date in high school or college? No proms or parties? Someone might have said yes, but you didn't ask.
Are you sure you really want this enough? Seems like you'd rather do other things than have a relationship, which is OK too. Don't think you need to have something because others do. You just may be cut from a different cloth.
Not a single date in high school or college? No proms or parties? Someone might have said yes, but you didn't ask.
Those are loaded questions. But I'll try to unpack them briefly. No, I never went to parties in high school. I was always invited, my parents were just strict (first generation Asian American). Eventually my friends stopped asking because I kept saying no. No prom neither. I commuted to college to save money, but it was difficult with my parents. Essentially, it was fights and arguments everyday, but I'm glad it happened because it gave my younger sister a chance to do all the things I didn't.
I graduated and focused on work, and right when I was about to move out, I lost my job. Then I moved to Arizona for grad school when I was 27. That's when I finally felt comfortable trying to date. This is also when I went to my first concert, music festival, party etc... probably the best experience of my life because it got me out there.
My parents aren't the same anymore. My relationship with this has never been better and they're great! But I do feel like I'm a little behind in terms of social maturity because of my lack of involvement when I was younger. I graduated last year and worked temp jobs. I'm trying to just get the stability so I can focus on other things, like having a life.
I do want a relationship. I thought I could do everything all at once because everyone seems to doing it and that's proven difficult. I guess I'm just reading about dating and learning that way for when I do put myself out there again. Unfortunately, it probably won't be until I can get a stable job because not having one is causing extreme anxiety. That and the virus. Sorry not that brief.
Those are loaded questions. But I'll try to unpack them briefly. No, I never went to parties in high school. I was always invited, my parents were just strict (first generation Asian American). Eventually my friends stopped asking because I kept saying no. No prom neither. I commuted to college to save money, but it was difficult with my parents. Essentially, it was fights and arguments everyday, but I'm glad it happened because it gave my younger sister a chance to do all the things I didn't.
I graduated and focused on work, and right when I was about to move out, I lost my job. Then I moved to Arizona for grad school when I was 27. That's when I finally felt comfortable trying to date. This is also when I went to my first concert, music festival, party etc... probably the best experience of my life because it got me out there.
My parents aren't the same anymore. My relationship with this has never been better and they're great! But I do feel like I'm a little behind in terms of social maturity because of my lack of involvement when I was younger. I graduated last year and worked temp jobs. I'm trying to just get the stability so I can focus on other things, like having a life.
I do want a relationship. I thought I could do everything all at once because everyone seems to doing it and that's proven difficult. I guess I'm just reading about dating and learning that way for when I do put myself out there again. Unfortunately, it probably won't be until I can get a stable job because not having one is causing extreme anxiety. That and the virus. Sorry not that brief.
Set realistic benchmarks for yourself. It sounds to me that that your delayed social development was a problem that has unfolded over time and I am going to suggest its going to take some time to catch up. What is not helpful to your self esteem is to let your self talk be phrases like 'I suck' but instead to try to bench mark your progress with more realistic benchmarks like I may not be as good yet as others at dating, but compared to other guys who didn't have much dating experience until I was 27, nor a current job, how well do I think I am making progress? Am I making an effort to reach out to others, am I putting myself in situations where there is an opportunity to meet women that I could date like say volunteering or activities like this in your area where you could meet women?
I do want a relationship. I thought I could do everything all at once because everyone seems to doing it and that's proven difficult.
Yeah, I definitely get this. In some ways I think "everything all at once" is just life, but prioritizing is part of that and I do think you'll be in a better place to date once you are more settled in your work life. Good luck!
How many dates are we talking about here? Big difference between being ghosted after 3/3 first dates vs. 20/20 first dates.
You will see different opinions on this, but I think it's fine to ask. "Can I have a hug?" "May I kiss you?" Etc. But I wouldn't make the conversation awkward by leading with "I don't understand social cues so I'm going to ask you what you want" - just ask, don't make it weird.
Banter can be fun, but I don't think it's a prerequisite to dating (or employment, but that's another subforum.)
+1 to the first 2 paragraphs,
On the third one I agree, but also I think that while banter per se isn't needed, there is a need for something playful in the conversation, or at least something that doesn't make the conversation flat.
It can be interesting, or fun etc, but it can't be "an exchange of information"-only. The woman needs to feel like she'd want to hear/say more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelato
You can figure out from them what the social norms that are safe for joking around and the social cues people give off when you are going too far and are too mean, but also how too push up against boundaries a little for laughs and also how to recover if you go too far. Once you figure out how to successfully joke around with guy friends and be social with them, then its much easier to do it with women.
This highly depends on who your friends are... :P Especially banter from male-only places can often be very far over the line when in female company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milforddona519
I'm fairly new to dating. My first date was when I was 27 so almost 3 years ago. Since then, I've been on 5 first dates. Last 2 were in February. With the virus, I'm not too concerned with dating at the moment..
My dating profiles are accurate and my pictures definitely look like me. But I deleted them a couple of weeks ago. Just, wasn't getting any replies and my job hunt is more important.
I would say being employed is extremely important for your chances of a successful date. I think most somewhat normal women see employment as a prerequisite. They will not tell you if this is why they wont meet you again, they will just ghost you or say they weren't into you or similar.
Going to job interviews is also a good training for conversation skills at dates (they're basically the same thing)
5 first dates is not much. Dating and finding a job as a guy appears much like the same process. Your profile/CV gives your specifications, your date (like a job interview) is your chance to show who you are and why you fit for the role(job/boyfriend, doesn't matter).
The few girlfriends I have had have been after having very unsuccessful dates where I tried really hard, too hard perhaps, and then suddenly I met someone where everything was just "easy" for no apparent reason. Both first dates had something that "went wrong" but ended up pretty good anyway.
Same thing when I found my job after graduating. Applied and applied and applied like crazy, lots of failed first interviews, trying hard all the time. Then when I found this job it was suddenly very easy to get. It wasn't a perfect interview, but somehow it just worked out well. But before I got it, all the failures that preceded certainly chiped away at self esteem and confidence, not gonna lie about that.
On the third one I agree, but also I think that while banter per se isn't needed, there is a need for something playful in the conversation, or at least something that doesn't make the conversation flat.
It can be interesting, or fun etc, but it can't be "an exchange of information"-only. The woman needs to feel like she'd want to hear/say more.
This highly depends on who your friends are... :P Especially banter from male-only places can often be very far over the line when in female company.
I would say being employed is extremely important for your chances of a successful date. I think most somewhat normal women see employment as a prerequisite. They will not tell you if this is why they wont meet you again, they will just ghost you or say they weren't into you or similar.
Going to job interviews is also a good training for conversation skills at dates (they're basically the same thing)
5 first dates is not much. Dating and finding a job as a guy appears much like the same process. Your profile/CV gives your specifications, your date (like a job interview) is your chance to show who you are and why you fit for the role(job/boyfriend, doesn't matter).
The few girlfriends I have had have been after having very unsuccessful dates where I tried really hard, too hard perhaps, and then suddenly I met someone where everything was just "easy" for no apparent reason. Both first dates had something that "went wrong" but ended up pretty good anyway.
Same thing when I found my job after graduating. Applied and applied and applied like crazy, lots of failed first interviews, trying hard all the time. Then when I found this job it was suddenly very easy to get. It wasn't a perfect interview, but somehow it just worked out well. But before I got it, all the failures that preceded certainly chiped away at self esteem and confidence, not gonna lie about that.
I think I see what you mean about it being "easy." When I first started using dating apps, texting and just having a simple conversation seemed impossible. It always felt like I was doing all the work. But with the women I did go on dates with, the texting was easy. I didn't feel like I pulling teeth. I don't know if it got easier or if the women were actually interested in getting to know me. Probably a little of both.
Per the unemployment, I was employed when I went on the dates. My contract ended right when the lockdown started. But I do agree with your assessment on jobs. I don't know how many interviews/informational interviews I've had in the last 2 months and it definitely chips away at my self esteem. That's another reason I stopped with the apps.
The most frustrating thing about the job search is that hiring managers will most likely not see your resume/cover letter unless you know someone at the company or someone outside the company refers you. Which brings me back to square one and my social limitations. I don't have much of a network in general, let alone one in the industry I want to work in. But we'll see what happens.
Thank you everyone for the advice. I really appreciate it.
OP, do you have friends and family who you talk to? You could become more comfortable having conversations with people without the added pressure of a romantic relationship.
I see what you mean. I am thinking of it in terms of black and white. I guess what I'm trying to accomplish is getting comfortable with people sooner. It's hard for me to be laid back and joke around with someone I just met. I've known my family for 30 years and my closest friends for 10-20.
I'm at the point where it might take me a few months if getting to know a new person to get comfortable with them (maybe seeing them a couple of times a month)...
Part of it is just practice. The more you get used to socializing with people you are not familiar with, the easier it gets over time. Its natural for there to be a period of awkwardness with strangers, that's why they do "ice breakers" at events where a bunch of strangers get together, to speed up the process developing rapport.
So, just practice. You can't be good at something you don't do often.
I consider myself socially awkward, combination of natural shyness, reticence, "slow to warm up" temperament, self-consciousness. Perfect recipe for social awkwardness. I can't say I have completely overcome it, but, I did improve with practice.
I focused on things like, keeping conversation light, don't ask probing, personal questions too soon (makes people uncomfortable), look for areas of similarity, commonalities, don't discuss religion, politics, bodily functions, or other taboo subjects, at least until you have achieved a certain level of intimacy in the relationship. But in the rapport building stage, you are just trying to find areas to connect on, things you can agree on, things you both like, etc.
Also keep in mind, nobody can have good rapport with everybody. So if you strike out a few times, don't interpret it as being fundamentally flawed. Everybody will strike out sometimes. Nobody is universally liked.
Try to understand this: 90% of conversation is banter. Even if it feels like the other person is talking with you as a way of sending and receiving technical information. The topic of your conversation is usually the least important thing they care about. It's just a way of connecting with someone.
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