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I can only conclude that most men don't think of women as "people". They think of them only as GFs or for sex and it doesn't go much deeper than that. They only look at the ones they want to boink and then generalize that to all women. And men could learn a great deal from sisters (if they have them) but I doubt they give a thought to them - what? My dumb sister I fought with as a kid might have some actual insights on women?!
I see that some men disagree or take offense to her comment but I actually agree with her 100%. That is I’m assuming what she means is that many man see the medium-high to top percentage of women and how they act and succeed in dating and then they project that onto all women generalizing and in doing so not considering the average woman or the woman below average who struggles in dating. Who is used and Who is always giving/ being taken advantage of, etc. Then these men say women have all the power or women only play games or women blah blah blah.
The truth is that just like not all men are players or cheaters or liars or just use women for sex, not all women are successful in dating. A few years ago there was a woman on here who made a post about her struggles in dating and in the comments other women joined in and said they understood and experienced it also but then some men joined in and said She was only struggling because she only chased rich Chads and the most attractive guys etc. In other words they could not and would not even try to comprehend that a woman could have an online dating profile and get no replies or get no messages because in a some man’s head they only see the women THEY want and ignore the existence of the rest.
Someone who gets it. Thank you for your interesting posts.
So, the bottom line is, men have a high sex drive and women have lower sex drives, so, given this biological fact, men are always going to pursue more than women do. Most women don't need to pursue because they are going to be pursued. So that is why they haven't developed game. Most of the time, all they need to do is show up, and that is good enough.
But, developing other qualities will grant them access to men who want more than just, say, a fertile body. I know a lot of men these days are really turned on by intelligence. They only (seriously) date women with Ph.D. or other advanced degrees. But that doesn't mean the women are being the hunters. These women have just upped their game by accomplishing things which opened up doors that wouldn't otherwise have been opened by just being a pretty girl in a dress with some makeup on. Some guys want substance and intelligence, and I think those are usually the guys who are high quality themselves.
I agree 100% especially with the letter paragraph because it encapsulates how women can attract a better quality of man as well as deter the type of man that she doesn’t want. This reminds me of something I’ve noticed a lot with attractive women when they use to always tell me that when they dress up and go out men were afraid to approach them but when they were in jeans & a T-shirt or sweatpants, guy would approached them. It could be correlation but I think it’s causation. I think men were intimidated by the combination of beauty plus the projection of success these women exuded. So if you’re a man who doesn’t have his life together financially, emotionally ,physically or, whatever then a woman who appears confident, successful and, beautiful wil be kind of like bug spray
I see that some men disagree or take offense to her comment but I actually agree with her 100%. That is I’m assuming what she means is that many man see the medium-high to top percentage of women and how they act and succeed in dating and then they project that onto all women generalizing and in doing so not considering the average woman or the woman below average who struggles in dating. Who is used and Who is always giving/ being taken advantage of, etc. Then these men say women have all the power or women only play games or women blah blah blah.
The truth is that just like not all men are players or cheaters or liars or just use women for sex, not all women are successful in dating. A few years ago there was a woman on here who made a post about her struggles in dating and in the comments other women joined in and said they understood and experienced it also but then some men joined in and said She was only struggling because she only chased rich Chads and the most attractive guys etc. In other words they could not and would not even try to comprehend that a woman could have an online dating profile and get no replies or get no messages because in a some man’s head they only see the women THEY want and ignore the existence of the rest.
At least this is what I got from her comment
Your posts here is reading a boat load of information into what you quoted, unless there was a whole other conversation I didn't see.
"Most women just see men as just a wallet and a meal ticket"
Wouldn't we agree that isn't a very nice way to view women?
Why is "Most men see women as objects....." not offensive?
I'm not losing any sleep here, I just bristle a bit when negative things are said about people, men or women and when they use qualifiers like "most", that was my point. It's probably best to say something like "some" or something along those lines when we say pretty negative sounding stuff about a group of people.
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But of course, it was all life experience to date a bunch of guys, many of them less than savory, some of them great guys, but as an immature person, I didn't have the maturity or life experience yet to be able to appreciate good qualities in a guy. I just wanted someone exciting and fun. The 20-25 year-old is legally an adult, but I would argue is not making decisions at an adult level yet. There may be exceptions, but not in my case. I am just glad I at least had the foresight to know I shouldn't marry or have kids with any of those guys, just have "fun" with them while we could afford to be reckless and irresponsible still.
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a lot of psychologist/neurologist will explain that brain development continues thru mid-20's and the speed at which synapses fire and the neural pathways they follow affect logic and decision making. thats why teens are so instant gratification and dont think thru cause-and-affect as much.
Unpack that some more. I definitely approach and ask out a lot more women than women ask me out. So much that its notable the few times it happened. Whereas with women, they tend to assume that if a guy doesn't actually ask her out he is just not interested. So I am not following your line of thinking, but maybe if you flushed out your argument a little more, I would see your point better.
I saw both of these women as instigating. They weren't waiting passively for any guy to ask them out, they figured out who they were interested in and then took the steps needed to make that happen within the limitations of socially acceptable behavior.
Sure no problem but first let me Say that many times people conflate approaching with asking someone out. For us man they are one in the same, we approach a woman with the purpose of asking her out. A good analogy would be eating cereal, many people think of eating cereal as I have in the bowl with the milk and a spoon but that is not eating cereal that is eating cereal milk cereal it’s just the dry flakes. However in our minds we’re so used to them being together that when someone says they’re eating a bowl of cereal we never question is that with or without milk.
In my opinion this is what separates how men and women see approaching and what may be causing the confusion from you about my statement. Women’s see approaching as just that, they make sure they’re close enough to the man. We men see approaching as getting close to and then asking her out or talking to her at the very least. (Women’s see cereal and call it cereal. Man see cereal & milk and call it cereal).
As far as your letter comment I have nothing to say on it since it’s how you view things.
I see that some men disagree or take offense to her comment but I actually agree with her 100%. That is I’m assuming what she means is that many man see the medium-high to top percentage of women and how they act and succeed in dating and then they project that onto all women generalizing and in doing so not considering the average woman or the woman below average who struggles in dating. Who is used and Who is always giving/ being taken advantage of, etc. Then these men say women have all the power or women only play games or women blah blah blah.
The truth is that just like not all men are players or cheaters or liars or just use women for sex, not all women are successful in dating. A few years ago there was a woman on here who made a post about her struggles in dating and in the comments other women joined in and said they understood and experienced it also but then some men joined in and said She was only struggling because she only chased rich Chads and the most attractive guys etc. In other words they could not and would not even try to comprehend that a woman could have an online dating profile and get no replies or get no messages because in a some man’s head they only see the women THEY want and ignore the existence of the rest.
At least this is what I got from her comment
Her comment isn't the first time that conclusion has been drawn on this forum, either. A few years ago, someone posted, that a lot of men, especially the younger ones more inclined toward polemics, that we see on this forum, only define the top 20-30% of women looks-wise, as "women", and the rest aren't even on their radar, so they're unconcerned with whatever those women's situation and struggles are. They're in some category of lesser beings who don't matter. That does explain a certain mindset that we encounter here.
Of course this is a reflection of the type of posters we get here, especially back in the days, when we'd get a lot of trolls and immature types. We all know there are all kinds of men out there, with all kinds of taste in women, and visa-versa. There are people of both genders who look for substance, character, etc. But when attempting to understand and explain the all-too-common seemingly bizarre beliefs of a certain contingent of men who post here, Renee's statement really isn't too far off base.
Your posts here is reading a boat load of information into what you quoted, unless there was a whole other conversation I didn't see.
"Most women just see men as just a wallet and a meal ticket"
Wouldn't we agree that isn't a very nice way to view women?
Why is "Most men see women as objects....." not offensive?
I'm not losing any sleep here, I just bristle a bit when negative things are said about people, men or women and when they use qualifiers like "most", that was my point. It's probably best to say something like "some" or something along those lines when we say pretty negative sounding stuff about a group of people.
I think qwy has a good understanding of the post he quoted. And he didn't say "most men see women as...". He said, "many men...". We could argue about what "many" means, like: how many is "many", statistically, or whatever, but I think the point is, that a certain type of poster here that we do tend to see fairly frequently (though mercifully--less so, than before our moderation got beefed up--go, mods!), does think along the lines described by Renee & qwy.
all this masculine/feminine energy bagary sounds like a cult.
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Hmmm... I wouldn’t say a cult, more of it’s just human to want to simplify things especially with the massive amount of information that the average person is exposed to daily; shortcuts help us absorb and categorize easier. This is why you’re a ***** news headline will say something like $60 million/$60,000,000 or 7,000 people instead of $60,253,842 or 6,9498 people. One is just easier.
So saying masculine or feminine energy is simply a useful way to say traits and characteristics generally associated with one gender more predominately so then the other that differentiates them from the other sex while also being characteristics the opposite gender finds sexually appealing.
A lot of people here seem to be in agreement that men have the higher sex drive. In my experience, that has not been the case, ever. Many boyfriends, a couple of husbands, and I've always had the higher sex drive. Am I really that much of a unicorn?
I think one of the problems here is that when women take the initiative its subtle and often not noticed. but I also probably miss a lot of that as well, if I wasn't paying close enough attention.
Lastly, to be fair I would say women take the initiative far less frequently than men, with a much smaller slice of the male population.
If you read your first sentence you will see why I disagree with your last sentence. I think women do approach as much as men do if not more it is not their fault that we men don’t notice or expect them to approach as men approach.
To be fair I can relate to a lot of the men who say that they were afraid or too shy to approach and the men who said they wished women approached like men approach. But I’ve been realizing more and more that everything is connected and it’s not just about dating, if I lack the courage to go out and try to get what I desire and risk rejection in one area that trickles down to other areas in my life.
I am not saying that men who approach know how to apply that level of self-efficacy to all other areas of their life but I am saying that for myself I want to apply that courage to everything and so if there’s something or someone I want I want to risk the rejection by going after it.
I would rather be on my deathbed the type of person to say I tried and I failed and therefore I have no complaints; no regrets. Than the type of person who says I never tried and I would die wishing I knew what could have been.
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I wouldn’t say a cult, more of it’s just human to want to simplify things especially with the massive amount of information that the average person is exposed to daily; shortcuts help us absorb and categorize easier. This is why you’re a ***** news headline will say something like $60 million/$60,000,000 or 7,000 people instead of $60,253,842 or 6,9498 people. One is just easier.