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I came across some videos on YouTube lately about the differences between online dating for men and for women. The youtube stars were Abe & Preach.
The gyst of their argument was that women have no game because they rely on their looks and their popularity (just based on being female) on online dating. They were downright hostile at "female privilege," while saying that as men, who don't naturally take as attractive photos as women do (assuming everyone is motivated by looks), as men they must fall back on "game," and, women simply don't get this struggle. There was a definite resentment based on the assumption that women can just look pretty and get dates, while men must be delivering the one liners and jokes and seriously chatting up every one to even get one date.
I don't know if this is true. When I chat with someone, usually I am just seeing if he seems to get me and has empathy and understands me and can have a conversation. Then again I did give up on OLD awhile ago, so maybe I am out of touch with what is going on there.
But I do see people argue on this forum about whether or not women should approach.
Guys, if a woman approaches you on OLD do you expect her to spit game? Or do you just judge her on her attractiveness from her photos? Or do you seek a deeper connection?
I am just wondering if OLD should be or is veering in the direction of women being the approachers and if so, if that is really working out?
I came across some videos on YouTube lately about the differences between online dating for men and for women. The youtube stars were Abe & Preach.
The gyst of their argument was that women have no game because they rely on their looks and their popularity (just based on being female) on online dating. They were downright hostile at "female privilege," while saying that as men, who don't naturally take as attractive photos as women do (assuming everyone is motivated by looks), as men they must fall back on "game," and, women simply don't get this struggle. There was a definite resentment based on the assumption that women can just look pretty and get dates, while men must be delivering the one liners and jokes and seriously chatting up every one to even get one date.
I don't know if this is true. When I chat with someone, usually I am just seeing if he seems to get me and has empathy and understands me and can have a conversation. Then again I did give up on OLD awhile ago, so maybe I am out of touch with what is going on there.
But I do see people argue on this forum about whether or not women should approach.
Guys, if a woman approaches you on OLD do you expect her to spit game? Or do you just judge her on her attractiveness from her photos? Or do you seek a deeper connection?
I am just wondering if OLD should be or is veering in the direction of women being the approachers and if so, if that is really working out?
I have always liked it when an attractive gal approaches me. They don't need "game", but they first off need to be child-free.
I've watched quite a few of their videos and think they're funny guys...do I always agree with them? No and I don't really get offended by what they say because it doesn't really apply to me.
I think their main beef is that they just want women to understand that the world is different for men and that there are struggles that they deal with when it comes to dating. I just think that their main message with those types of videos, is just to go after what you want and choose wisely. Man or woman.
I've watched quite a few of their videos and think they're funny guys...do I always agree with them? No and I don't really get offended by what they say because it doesn't really apply to me.
I think their main beef is that they just want women to understand that the world is different for men and that there are struggles that they deal with when it comes to dating. I just think that their main message with those types of videos, is just to go after what you want and choose wisely. Man or woman.
I agree with that, but the reverse is also true. Men might benefit to understand the world is different for women and that there are struggles that women deal with when it comes to dating.
I agree with that, but the reverse is also true. Men might benefit to understand the world is different for women and that there are struggles that women deal with when it comes to dating.
Maybe a lot of women are not as understanding as they claim they want men to be......I used to think that notion was ridiculous but after examining some behaviors of women that I know and women that I have seen in the media, I understand what some men are talking about. Especially these days with all these different movements taking place, men's concerns do often take a back seat compared to ours.
Maybe a lot of women are not as understanding as they claim they want men to be......I used to think that notion was ridiculous but after examining some behaviors of women that I know and women that I have seen in the media, I understand what some men are talking about. Especially these days with all these different movements taking place, men's concerns do often take a back seat compared to ours.
I would be interested in examples to back up your post.
I came across some videos on YouTube lately about the differences between online dating for men and for women. The youtube stars were Abe & Preach.
The gyst of their argument was that women have no game because they rely on their looks and their popularity (just based on being female) on online dating. They were downright hostile at "female privilege," while saying that as men, who don't naturally take as attractive photos as women do (assuming everyone is motivated by looks), as men they must fall back on "game," and, women simply don't get this struggle. There was a definite resentment based on the assumption that women can just look pretty and get dates, while men must be delivering the one liners and jokes and seriously chatting up every one to even get one date.
I don't know if this is true. When I chat with someone, usually I am just seeing if he seems to get me and has empathy and understands me and can have a conversation. Then again I did give up on OLD awhile ago, so maybe I am out of touch with what is going on there.
But I do see people argue on this forum about whether or not women should approach.
Guys, if a woman approaches you on OLD do you expect her to spit game? Or do you just judge her on her attractiveness from her photos? Or do you seek a deeper connection?
I am just wondering if OLD should be or is veering in the direction of women being the approachers and if so, if that is really working out?
Different parts of the dating process are difficult for both men and women. I would say the part of dating that involves getting women to agree to actually do something with a guy is a lot more difficult for men than for women.
But I don't want to minimize the amount of work and effort that women put into the dating process either. Lots of women have been playing around with make up since they were 12 to get good at that. Women put a lot more effort in picking clothes to convey what kind of guys they are looking for and lets not ignore they put into a maintaining their weight. Now this work isn't done exclusively for dating purposes, but a lot of this has large consequences in dating results.
When you actually go on dates and start dealing with the woman as an actual person, looks and personality no longer loom as large because now you have a lot more information to accurately start evaluating women for other things.
I am happy if a woman just honest with me. it I also really admire women who don't ghost just didn't ghost me, but I understand why they do it .The reason I have no expectation that women are spitting game on OLD is that I basically think text messages are a lousy way to actually get to know anyone. In general I would say a phone call is a better way to get to know someone than text, and meeting in person is better than talking on the phone. But on a dating app, you mostly start by sending text messages because women feel the most safe doing that. But my goal while texting isn't to decide whether to date or not date her, but mostly to get her to feel safe enough to agree to go out often while telling jokes so that she can agree to go on a date with the idea that we will have fun and that she feels safe. Its the actually date where she starts to relax and starts revealing herself where I start thinking about how much of a fit we are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auraliea
Maybe a lot of women are not as understanding as they claim they want men to be......I used to think that notion was ridiculous but after examining some behaviors of women that I know and women that I have seen in the media, I understand what some men are talking about. Especially these days with all these different movements taking place, men's concerns do often take a back seat compared to ours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by moongirl00
I would be interested in examples to back up your post.
Alexander Grace has this video where he invites a young woman to set up a fake male tinder dating profile and to try to talk a bunch of women to agree to go on a date with her pretending to be a man. The young woman is appalled about how rude women are to men on dating apps.
In "Self Made Man" Norah Vincent spends a year living as man and writes a book about it. She was a lesbian who had dated other women and had been asked out by heterosexual men. She too was shocked about just how rude, dismissive and distrustful women were to her in the dating process.
In my experience this aspect of the male dating process is not transparent to women.
I also agree that the ability to get a woman to agree to go on date is much more of a skill for men than for women and I think on line dating has raised the basic skill requirement for men in a way that it didn't for women. A third of young men had no sex last year, but that wasn't the case for women. If someone misgenders someone think about how much ink gets written about that, but one third of young men don't have sex last year and its crickets because they are men. If this was happening to women, does anyone seriously question that this would be a feminist issue?
Different parts of the dating process are difficult for both men and women. I would say the part of dating that involves getting women to agree to actually do something with a guy is a lot more difficult for men than for women.
But I don't want to minimize the amount of work and effort that women put into the dating process either. Lots of women have been playing around with make up since they were 12 to get good at that. Women put a lot more effort in picking clothes to convey what kind of guys they are looking for and lets not ignore they put into a maintaining their weight. Now this work isn't done exclusively for dating purposes, but a lot of this has large consequences in dating results.
I agree. I think most people go by photos in the very beginning. Before you ever chat with someone, usually you decide if you want to or not by whether or not you like their photo. I think women tend to be more photogenic than men. They can also use makeup and various things to look better. For a guy I think its hard not to make his photo look like a mug shot, especially if its a selfie. I think in general its probably hard for a lot of guys to take attractive photos.
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When you actually go on dates and start dealing with the woman as an actual person, looks and personality no longer loom as large because now you have a lot more information to accurately start evaluating women for other things.
Makes sense. She could be very beautiful, but if she has an annoying personality, or you just find out she is a terrible person, or she treats you badly, or has some bad habits, like alcoholism, then you might decide to pass? Then again I seem to hear about guys who stay in bad relationships because they are getting sex and the woman is attractive. But, those are probably dysfunctional guys. I don't think healthy guys would do that.
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I am happy if a woman just honest with me. it I also really admire women who don't ghost just didn't ghost me, but I understand why they do it .The reason I have no expectation that women are spitting game on OLD is that I basically think text messages are a lousy way to actually get to know anyone. In general I would say a phone call is a better way to get to know someone than text, and meeting in person is better than talking on the phone. But on a dating app, you mostly start by sending text messages because women feel the most safe doing that. But my goal while texting isn't to decide whether to date or not date her, but mostly to get her to feel safe enough to agree to go out often while telling jokes so that she can agree to go on a date with the idea that we will have fun and that she feels safe. Its the actually date where she starts to relax and starts revealing herself where I start thinking about how much of a fit we are.
I would agree meeting in person is the best way. Texting is just a holding pattern. You aren't moving the relationship forward, you are just passing time but there is no genuine interaction going on, in my opinion. It might seem like it, but I think the person is still a stranger until you meet face to face.
Phone calls are a bit better. At least you can hear the expression in their voice and get a better sense of the person. Their personality comes through and its harder to hide, as you can behind text.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy texting sometimes. But its a very impersonal way of communicating.
Some women might feel more comfortable only texting strangers from OLD, but if someone only wants to text and nothing else, imo I would feel like it was wasting my time (if I wanted an actual date).
So, I can understand the frustration in that if guys keep encountering women who just want to text endlessly before talking on the phone or meeting up. But it sounds like that is a requirement to get them to feel comfortable.
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Alexander Grace has this video where he invites a young woman to set up a fake male tinder dating profile and to try to talk a bunch of women to agree to go on a date with her pretending to be a man. The young woman is appalled about how rude women are to men on dating apps.
Interesting experiment. I don't know, I don't think I was rude to people while I was doing OLD. I have never done Tinder so I don't know what that's like though. I used to want to get to know people, but its not possible to click with everyone. The same questions gets boring after awhile. If someone asks me the same question I have just been asked 50 times, like "So what do you do for fun?" I am going to be bored and probably just ignore it. But if we could connect on something we both had in common, then the conversation would be interesting and would flow naturally. But beating a dead horse with the same stale conversation over and over again is just tedious.
I would have to know more before I can fault these women for that. Maybe there was just not a connection there.
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In "Self Made Man" Norah Vincent spends a year living as man and writes a book about it. She was a lesbian who had dated other women and had been asked out by heterosexual men. She too was shocked about just how rude, dismissive and distrustful women were to her in the dating process.
In my experience this aspect of the male dating process is not transparent to women.
I never heard of this. Sounds like an interesting book. I'll look into it. Thanks.
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I also agree that the ability to get a woman to agree to go on date is much more of a skill for men than for women and I think on line dating has raised the basic skill requirement for men in a way that it didn't for women. A third of young men had no sex last year, but that wasn't the case for women. If someone misgenders someone think about how much ink gets written about that, but one third of young men don't have sex last year and its crickets because they are men. If this was happening to women, does anyone seriously question that this would be a feminist issue?
My only problem with this is that it makes it sound like access to sex is a basic human right, and that women are maliciously withholding sex from men or something. Nobody is entitled to sex, and we all decide who to share our bodies with.
Something I wonder if men really get about women is how careful most of us have to be with our decision whether or not to have sex with someone. There are some women who are promiscuous and go to clubs every weekend and have sex with strangers, but I think this is pretty rare. Most women, even though they have sex drives, and they want to have sex, also know that the consequences of having sex are very real. There is danger of unplanned pregnancy, its easier for women to catch STDs than it is for men, and many women feel bonded to a guy after having sex with him and it can be very painful if the guy then leaves or ends up being a bad guy. So, we want to know who we are having sex with, that he is a good guy, he is going to stay around, and if an unplanned pregnancy happens, we will be ok with that. Men can do it much more casually, and there are fewer consequences for them (well they could end up paying child support for 18 years).
Women have to carry most of the burden of responsibility in deciding when and if sex will happen, because if it were up to men, everybody would probably be having sex 24/7. But then women get called teases if they don't, and sluts if they do.
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