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Piece of old, classic advice. “If you stop looking so hard for a relationship, you’ll find it.” “Be happy being single, that’s when you’re at your most attractive.” I think everyone has probably heard this, and it popped up here in another thread recently.
I posit that this adage has a root in the feminine dating experience. Societal dating norms are such that when it comes to initiation, women are generally the ask-ees, not the ask-ers. Men generally approach women, not the other way around.
For women, then, to me this piece of advice is a lot like saying “A watched pot never boils.” Of course the water is going to boil whether you’re watching it or not, as long as it’s brought to 100 degrees Celsius...what will change is the level of anxiety you feel from keeping an anticipative eye on it. I think for most women it tends to be a lot the same...since societal norms dictate that men usually do the pursuing, most women are going to be asked out at various points in their lives whether they are actively seeking a relationship or not.
For guys this tends to not be nearly as true. While in some cases the norms that dictate that men do the asking are changing, and women are probably asking men out more often than they ever have, I think such cases are still very much in the minority. In fact, I’ve seen plenty of women still state things like “I’ll never ask a man out, if I have to do the pursuing it means he’s not that into me anyways, and I’m not starting a relationship on unequal footing.”
Telling a woman “Stop looking for it, stop working so hard for it” can be decent advice because it can help her level of anxiety until the next guy asks her out. Telling a guy this, on the other hand, is a good way to make sure he stays single and off the market...if he’s not actively seeking a relationship and asking women out, there’s a very low chance women are going to be seeking him instead.
There are many ways a woman can show a man she likes him without actually asking him out.
Being friendly, smiling, a little flirty, waving when she catches sight of him, etc etc.
I agree that men will persue if they're interested. So while I certainly think it's permissable for a woman to ask a man out it generally seems to lead nowhere. There was a thread here that discussed this issue. The poster met someone in line at a coffee shop, they chatted, she asked him out twice, he accepted, fizzled.
It's been my experience if a man likes you he lets you know in no uncertain terms.
And yes, I would say if a woman sends out a happy and contented vibe, as opposed to desperate and needy, she's much more attractive to everyone around her.
I agree and I also strongly believe that women shouldn't pursue men but should let themselves be pursued. I know many women don't like that because it feels very passive and powerless to just have to sit and wait for a man to pursue them. What if a certain man catches their eye but he doesn't ask her out? It's natural to want to take the bull by the horns and make it happen instead of wait in vain.
But that is just not the natural way the sexes interact. I think in general men don't like to he hunted or pursued. Maybe some men do but in general most don't. He might take a woman up on her advances if he's opportunistic, but may not treat her as a person he values and respects and wants to commit to.
I think women should be like flowers in a garden. All the flower has to do is look pretty and smell good and the bee comes. The bees can't help it, they are magnetically drawn. The flower doesn't have to do anything but be beautiful and alluring and the bee does the rest of the work.
I think it's a good analogy for how dating is and how relationships start. Be beautiful and enticing and the men won't be able to stay away. They will come to you.
I think it can be hard if someone feels like they are sitting around waiting. They want to pick up the phone and text the guy and set up a date. They are afraid he:ll get away or another woman will catch him. But don't. Stay busy with other things that make you happy and the man if he is attracted, he will definitely come when he is ready. And he will appreciate not feeling pressured or nagged or cornered into something. Desperation and neediness are turn offs and men have a spidy sense when a woman is that way and they hate it. They want to be bees happily sipping nectars from the flowers and don't want one scary aggressive flower chasing him down and trying to trap him. People don't like to be controlled or approached in aggressive ways.
I think this is the basis of that book "He's just not that into you" too.
I think in modern times we are losing the masculine-feminine polarities/roles and that is messing things up with dating.
My personal thought is focusing too much and always being on the prowl for someone is not effective. I found this article which goes into more depth about the idea:
Constantly looking for love can diminish your ability to be objective about people you meet. If that objectivity fades, how can you discern who is right for you in a relationship? After a while, everyone seems to be a good fit because you want him or her to be, not because he or she is the right fit. I have seen women make this mistake and lose their ability to make sound, coherent judgments of the character of others.
Piece of old, classic advice. “If you stop looking so hard for a relationship, you’ll find it.” “Be happy being single, that’s when you’re at your most attractive.” I think everyone has probably heard this, and it popped up here in another thread recently.
I posit that this adage has a root in the feminine dating experience. Societal dating norms are such that when it comes to initiation, women are generally the ask-ees, not the ask-ers. Men generally approach women, not the other way around.
For women, then, to me this piece of advice is a lot like saying “A watched pot never boils.” Of course the water is going to boil whether you’re watching it or not, as long as it’s brought to 100 degrees Celsius...what will change is the level of anxiety you feel from keeping an anticipative eye on it. I think for most women it tends to be a lot the same...since societal norms dictate that men usually do the pursuing, most women are going to be asked out at various points in their lives whether they are actively seeking a relationship or not.
For guys this tends to not be nearly as true. While in some cases the norms that dictate that men do the asking are changing, and women are probably asking men out more often than they ever have, I think such cases are still very much in the minority. In fact, I’ve seen plenty of women still state things like “I’ll never ask a man out, if I have to do the pursuing it means he’s not that into me anyways, and I’m not starting a relationship on unequal footing.”
Telling a woman “Stop looking for it, stop working so hard for it” can be decent advice because it can help her level of anxiety until the next guy asks her out. Telling a guy this, on the other hand, is a good way to make sure he stays single and off the market...if he’s not actively seeking a relationship and asking women out, there’s a very low chance women are going to be seeking him instead.
Thoughts?
If people followed this advice, online dating would go out of business. lol
I take the phrase to mean that when you're not looking you're more open to receiving because you're not looking for arbitrary things to disqualify a potential partner, and it makes it easier to focus on the connection. I also think a lot of people say this because when it comes to love, despite what others say, no matter how hard some people try they may never find it. It either naturally happens or it doesn't. Can you make your odds better by going out and meeting people? Yes, but that is about all you can do. I notice with some people who make it their duty to find someone, they set themselves up for disappointment because reality doesn't match their expectations. I think if more folks accept love cannot be controlled and accept that it's not something that is guaranteed to everyone, the better off they will be. But that's just how I feel.
Piece of old, classic advice. “If you stop looking so hard for a relationship, you’ll find it.” “Be happy being single, that’s when you’re at your most attractive.” I think everyone has probably heard this, and it popped up here in another thread recently.
I posit that this adage has a root in the feminine dating experience. Societal dating norms are such that when it comes to initiation, women are generally the ask-ees, not the ask-ers. Men generally approach women, not the other way around.
For women, then, to me this piece of advice is a lot like saying “A watched pot never boils.” Of course the water is going to boil whether you’re watching it or not, as long as it’s brought to 100 degrees Celsius...what will change is the level of anxiety you feel from keeping an anticipative eye on it. I think for most women it tends to be a lot the same...since societal norms dictate that men usually do the pursuing, most women are going to be asked out at various points in their lives whether they are actively seeking a relationship or not.
For guys this tends to not be nearly as true. While in some cases the norms that dictate that men do the asking are changing, and women are probably asking men out more often than they ever have, I think such cases are still very much in the minority. In fact, I’ve seen plenty of women still state things like “I’ll never ask a man out, if I have to do the pursuing it means he’s not that into me anyways, and I’m not starting a relationship on unequal footing.”
Telling a woman “Stop looking for it, stop working so hard for it” can be decent advice because it can help her level of anxiety until the next guy asks her out. Telling a guy this, on the other hand, is a good way to make sure he stays single and off the market...if he’s not actively seeking a relationship and asking women out, there’s a very low chance women are going to be seeking him instead.
Thoughts?
This is just another thread discussing warmed-over cliches and stereotypes. The fact is, that women have been making the first move since time immemorial. They, after all, are the ones with the most interest in finding a partner of good character, to help them raise kids. And it's a good thing for men who are too shy to make any moves, or who don't think anyone would be interested in them anyway, so they never try. If women observe someone in their circles, whatever those circles may be, who seems to them to be a good fit, they won't let him get away without at least trying to get his attention, coming up with excuses for getting together, or whatever their m.o. is.
Passively waiting for some random person to approach is a good way to guarantee she'll be waiting a long time, OR that she'll only be approached by types she's not into. By taking a more active role when someone interesting crosses her radar (note that this doesn't mean asking out random people in a "numbers game", like some men do), she can have more influence over her future. Of course, even so, there's no guarantee that the guy she's interested in will reciprocate. Her process is just as hit-and-miss as anyone's.
Actor Tom Selleck said in an interview, that he was always too shy to approach women. He said, he never would have gotten married, if friends of his hadn't set him up on a blind date with the woman who later became his wife.
This is just another thread discussing warmed-over cliches and stereotypes. The fact is, that women have been making the first move since time immemorial. And it's a good thing for men who are too shy to make any moves, or who don't think anyone would be interested in them anyway, so they never try. If women observe someone in their circles, whatever those circles may be, who seems to them to be a good fit, they won't let him get away without at least trying to get his attention, coming up with excuses for getting together, or whatever their m.o. is.
This come into play this popular video...though I'm not sure that the 99% is accurate, I'm sure it's close enough (YouTube)
From a woman's perspective I agree more with R4T here than what Moongirl said, but I don't much care for the whole "all women should..." Nah. Tell me I should not do something because I was born a female human and you pretty much guarantee I'll try just because. Been like that most of my life. And I'll likely get good results, too. But we ALL as individuals have to figure out what works for US.
If what I do works for me, and you've been doing what you think we're all "supposed to" do but have not found YOUR happily ever after, then I don't see why I should have been doing it your way all along. Thanks. Though I sincerely do hope that you (any/all of you) DO find what you want and everything, however which way you go about it.
But where it pertains to men, the OP's proposition misses the mark. "Stop looking" is being taken to mean that you can just give up and it will fall into your lap magically or something, and no, obviously not. If you never leave your home, you won't meet other people (except on the internet, and that's got a lot of pitfalls, obviously.) These sentiments are being taken entirely the wrong way.
That kind of advice is MEANT to tell you to stop being so hung up on one outcome that looks one way, that you increase your frustration, insecurity, cynicism and bitterness constantly when the stars don't line up just so, because the more effort you're putting in without success, the more destructive your disappointment starts to get after a while. It's MEANT to say, don't be the aggressive salesman in the mall who doesn't care who he approaches with his pitch, nobody likes that and that flagrant agenda makes people uncomfortable. Chill the hell out and meet other people, BUT...be open to opportunities and learn to spot them when they appear, and act on them. <-- It is that part, that's missing, from the OP's statement.
There are so many great analogies for various parts of the love/romance/dating experience. For initial connection making, I like the "job interview" analogy, especially where online dating is concerned. They are incredibly similar! No, if you don't try at all, then you will not get a job. But at the same time, if you want a high quality job, if you have at least some standards, then you can't just blast out applications in a numbers game, go cynically into every interview, demanding things, telling the interviewer how horrible all of your other jobs were, and with a vibe that clearly says, "I absolutely expect this to be a bust, why don't you just reject me right now, I know you will." You might get a job but it'll be a crap one where they'd literally take ANYONE, and the odds you'll be happy in it? Well, you never expected to be, now did you? If you're completely unrealistic about your qualifications, then you might shoot above or below your level. Your best bet, is to make yourself as good a catch as possible, and then find a way to get that gorgeous resume out there in front of the eyes of employers, and to persuade them that yeah, you WANT me on board. You still have to go through the hiring process, but it'll be a lot easier if the employer wants to hire you to begin with, and even more so if you truly and genuinely ARE a good fit for the job.
All the same? Being nervous in an interview or a first date is totally human. Do your best and don't beat yourself up over it, but try to relax and be friendly and happy and it will serve you well.
All the same? Rejection hurts. But I have one son who will put in one application for a job and then follow up on it, having envisioned in his head everything about working for that company and believing he's just GOT to get THAT job, and if he's turned down, he is totally demoralized and doesn't want to apply again (please now consider the parallel to dating)...and another son who blasts out apps, does his best in interviews, and isn't that invested in outcomes...and while he's had a number of short term jobs and none have really worked out, he's not too bent about it and always figures he can find something else pretty easily. I kind of wish he'd look at dating that way, because he recently got his heart smashed by a girl who friend zoned him when he invested way too much emotional juju into what was only ever going to be a friendship.
There is, of course, a middle ground. But in both contexts, being able to spot a good thing and put a reasonable amount of energy into pursuing it...but not allowing it to wreck you if it doesn't work out... That's the sweet spot.
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