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Again my mother and step father or her significant other.
She believed that a legal marriage might led to the Colonel losing a great deal of money or at the worst end go to jail. So they had a complex set of legal documents that defined their relationship. Remember the reason she did not want a legal marriage was because she was a quite famous federal income tax expert and may well have been the author or editor of much of the Federal Income Tax Code. You will not find her name mentioned anywhere as she played her role through various Congressmen. So she believed anyone who she married was likely to get the same scrutiny she got from the IRS. And she feared the Colonel could not stand that.
The only problem with this is not many marriages have a super attorney as a member. And buying an equivalent service will be beyond the reach of many...
It all worked out well. When he died she dealt with the estates and buried him in Sierra Vista as he wished. The only thing she really gave up was a sizable spouse benefit. But she was vastly better off than he so no big deal.
Moongirl, you are coming a little closer to seeing my point and there is something significant in your last post that I agree with, which is that you either ARE married, or you are not. And if your intent is to be legally married, if you fall on the "married, yes" side of that equation, then for heaven's sakes get the freaking piece of paper.
But it's not all benefits and rights and good stuff. That was the math I was juggling in that first ten years with the Ex. We think/assume that taxes will always benefit the married over the unmarried and that simply is not always true, especially at lower income levels. So when we were clawing and scratching along through those hard early times, the way it worked was that both of us had fairly low incomes, as a "single mom" for tax reasons, I got like $5k back (way more than I paid in) and he maybe owed a couple hundred bucks as a "single guy" tops. We were freaking poor and we needed every cent we could get, I did not see much sense in getting married and losing all of that, which we would have, and I knew it.
The problem is, you can't tell a health insurance company that you are "common law married" when you file your taxes as separate people for instance...like there were situations that cropped up where we wanted the benefit of "being married" but we did not want to lose the tax refund...well, that is illegal. You do not get to have it both ways! You are, or you're not.
And those disabled folks I mentioned who can't get married because they'd lose everything (and it's more than some rare little handful of people, believe me) can't even breathe the word "wife" or "husband" in front of anybody lest some government snoop find out that they are "holding themselves to the community as husband and wife" and yoink away their assistance. Marital status can reach into all sorts of things like qualification for student aid if you're going to college, too.
My point is that people can, do, and will, and SHOULD make these choices based on more than how they feel about someone. These are legal matters, affecting your taxes and insurance and social security and all sorts of things, and you cannot take for granted that every possible effect will benefit you, and sometimes you've got to do what makes sense for your survival. It is not a decision to be made lightly. But ultimately it's about more than simply feelings of commitment to another person. You can get a nasty surprise on either side of it, if you do or don't get married, and so you need to do your research about how it's going to affect you.
So if some people do all of that research and math and figure it out, and discover that even though they feel committed, feel married, don't see the relationship ending, and so on...it would cause them financial damage and harm to make it legal...well, it makes perfectly good sense to do what is described in this thread. At least, unless they are on disability, I guess. Then they're not able to safely even do that.
Moongirl, you are coming a little closer to seeing my point and there is something significant in your last post that I agree with, which is that you either ARE married, or you are not. And if your intent is to be legally married, if you fall on the "married, yes" side of that equation, then for heaven's sakes get the freaking piece of paper.
But it's not all benefits and rights and good stuff. That was the math I was juggling in that first ten years with the Ex. We think/assume that taxes will always benefit the married over the unmarried and that simply is not always true, especially at lower income levels. So when we were clawing and scratching along through those hard early times, the way it worked was that both of us had fairly low incomes, as a "single mom" for tax reasons, I got like $5k back (way more than I paid in) and he maybe owed a couple hundred bucks as a "single guy" tops. We were freaking poor and we needed every cent we could get, I did not see much sense in getting married and losing all of that, which we would have, and I knew it.
The problem is, you can't tell a health insurance company that you are "common law married" when you file your taxes as separate people for instance...like there were situations that cropped up where we wanted the benefit of "being married" but we did not want to lose the tax refund...well, that is illegal. You do not get to have it both ways! You are, or you're not.
And those disabled folks I mentioned who can't get married because they'd lose everything (and it's more than some rare little handful of people, believe me) can't even breathe the word "wife" or "husband" in front of anybody lest some government snoop find out that they are "holding themselves to the community as husband and wife" and yoink away their assistance. Marital status can reach into all sorts of things like qualification for student aid if you're going to college, too.
My point is that people can, do, and will, and SHOULD make these choices based on more than how they feel about someone. These are legal matters, affecting your taxes and insurance and social security and all sorts of things, and you cannot take for granted that every possible effect will benefit you, and sometimes you've got to do what makes sense for your survival. It is not a decision to be made lightly. But ultimately it's about more than simply feelings of commitment to another person. You can get a nasty surprise on either side of it, if you do or don't get married, and so you need to do your research about how it's going to affect you.
So if some people do all of that research and math and figure it out, and discover that even though they feel committed, feel married, don't see the relationship ending, and so on...it would cause them financial damage and harm to make it legal...well, it makes perfectly good sense to do what is described in this thread. At least, unless they are on disability, I guess. Then they're not able to safely even do that.
I think we are pretty much agreeing!
When I was urging people to get married if they are committed anyways, yeah, Im not talking about the people who have some legitimate reason not to even though they want to. I'm more talking about the people who say things like "Its just a piece of paper." Or "But we already feel married so what's the point?"
That said, its probably also good to get legal advice first. For instance if you own a home, and then marry, your spouse automatically gets 50% ownership of your house. You could divorce one year later and have to give them half your house or buy them out. Thats scary stuff.
But I want to believe if two people are truly in love they are willing to take those risks. If they are not in love enough, then I dont think they should get to pretend they are married. Of course people will do as they please and certainly arent looking to me for approval.
Maybe I just feel it takes something away from those who are truly married and committed. Its like a travesty in a way.
I havent met anyone yet I could imagine taking that leap with, but I have still found it useful to do the research and know the legalities. Its a big, important decision with a lot of possible pitfalls, but worth it when two people actually do it right and for the reasons and have a long, happy marriage. Im not saying I hope or think Ill ever find it, but those that do in my opinion are owed a lot of respect for their ability and willingness to truly love and commit to another person.
When I was urging people to get married if they are committed anyways, yeah, Im not talking about the people who have some legitimate reason not to even though they want to. I'm more talking about the people who say things like "Its just a piece of paper." Or "But we already feel married so what's the point?"
That said, its probably also good to get legal advice first. For instance if you own a home, and then marry, your spouse automatically gets 50% ownership of your house. You could divorce one year later and have to give them half your house or buy them out. Thats scary stuff.
But I want to believe if two people are truly in love they are willing to take those risks. If they are not in love enough, then I dont think they should get to pretend they are married. Of course people will do as they please and certainly arent looking to me for approval.
Maybe I just feel it takes something away from those who are truly married and committed. Its like a travesty in a way.
I havent met anyone yet I could imagine taking that leap with, but I have still found it useful to do the research and know the legalities. Its a big, important decision with a lot of possible pitfalls, but worth it when two people actually do it right and for the reasons and have a long, happy marriage. Im not saying I hope or think Ill ever find it, but those that do in my opinion are owed a lot of respect for their ability and willingness to truly love and commit to another person.
I do feel that people should take the time to really get to know each other before getting married. Like, live together, wait until the infatuation "honeymoon phase" has passed, be seeing this person how they are when they are sick, when they are tired, when they are angry, warts and all, the good and the bad.
And I wish that young people could be protected from their own hazards of unwise decisions, getting locked into situations that are not great because they feel they've got no choice, like I did.
But that's also why I wish that the legal part and the part made up of emotions and traditions, were broken out into two completely separate processes. Like, I hate that you can love someone so much, your heart might be "all in" to spend the rest of your life with them, but the tax or insurance or...whatever, the financial or legal consequences, might be too much to bear.
Or some people might have a non-romantic relationship where they could and would like to commit to something for financial, legal, or business reasons, but calling it "marriage"...well. I'd like the state to buzz off and get out of our bedroom and emotional business, but to be involved where it makes sense like with the handling of assets in a partnership, the matters of estates, etc. You know?
I really, REALLY think that the commitment of caregivers to the disabled should be rewarded and not punished, and not only should disabled people be able to get married without the peril of losing benefits, but there should be a domestic contract available, so if for instance the sister/brother duo that I know where he's got Down's Syndrome and she is his caregiver, she can set things up in a way that is similar to the legal benefits of "marriage" but it's not that, it's just a familial domestic commitment contract that acknowledges the situation... I guess there are alternate legal things they can do, but they are all separate little moving parts that have to be found and handled.
The living in sin thing isn't' really that much of a concern...but on the other hand, you can't help but to think that at least one person is holding out for something better to come along...or perhaps maybe there's something going on in the relationship that makes that person a dealbreaker for marriage.
Good enough as a sig. other, but not good enough for marriage.
My co-worker often complains about how her b/f never wants to tie the knot and she is the religious type. She has some mental issues going on, and I'm thinking that's why he won't commit to marriage with her.
It's kind of like when a legit single woman wears a wedding ring so men won't approach her to ask her out.
The living in sin thing isn't' really that much of a concern...but on the other hand, you can't help but to think that at least one person is holding out for something better to come along...or perhaps maybe there's something going on in the relationship that makes that person a dealbreaker for marriage.
Good enough as a sig. other, but not good enough for marriage.
My co-worker often complains about how her b/f never wants to tie the knot and she is the religious type. She has some mental issues going on, and I'm thinking that's why he won't commit to marriage with her.
It's kind of like when a legit single woman wears a wedding ring so men won't approach her to ask her out.
It's living a lie.
I have this feeling that you're annoyed because you want to be able to see these women available to you, and regardless of the whys and wherefores of their relationship (which is not your business) you don't like the part of this situation that is basically telling you that the woman is off limits and not interested.
Kind of a "poop or get off the pot" sentiment. Get married or participate in the dating pool!
Not really how it works, though.
I mean, even if a couple only uses the terms "boyfriend/girlfriend" I don't feel like that should imply that some third party has a chance to get in there and compete and bump the existing partner aside.
The living in sin thing isn't' really that much of a concern...but on the other hand, you can't help but to think that at least one person is holding out for something better to come along...or perhaps maybe there's something going on in the relationship that makes that person a dealbreaker for marriage.
Good enough as a sig. other, but not good enough for marriage.
My co-worker often complains about how her b/f never wants to tie the knot and she is the religious type. She has some mental issues going on, and I'm thinking that's why he won't commit to marriage with her.
It's kind of like when a legit single woman wears a wedding ring so men won't approach her to ask her out.
It's living a lie.
Your mistake is thinking of marriage as somehow better than cohabitation. It's not. It's just different.
More to the point, it is a common stepping-stone toward marriage. Would you marry someone before dating them? Probably not. But you also probably wouldn't say that to date someone is to consider them 'good enough to date but not to marry'.
When my wife and I got out first apartment together, less than five months after we became involved, we didn't know if we were going to marry. But we took the next step. And some 2+ years after getting that first place, we were married.
Some people never take that step. So what? They're content to be unmarried (or married under Common Law). Some couples never even live together; they maintain separate residences over a long-term partnership. So what?
Some people just can't seem to figure out that the legality of a marriage certificate isn't everyone's end-goal.
I always love it when someone who’s neither married or in a relationship criticizes other people‘s. Absolutely hilarious!
I've been in relationships. I just never called my girlfriend my wife. Not sure how this statement applies to me in that case.
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