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I think there is a difference between answering a question on a forum, and how you would speak to a person in the situation.
I might answer "hell no!" here, but certainly wouldn't say it that way to a guy with an ESA who asked me out.
On the internet, though, aren't we always talking to someone in person? If not someone currently registered or lurking here, then someone who has a support animal ho a month from now thinks they might be ready to date, searches with "date" and "ESA" in there search, and lands here.
I had thought earlier that some of the more enthusiastic no responses might have been less so If someone was asking for himself or herself because they had an ESA. Most people would at least qualify their response or add to their "I don't think so" by commending the person for taking steps to better their life. And genuinely mean it.
On the internet, though, aren't we always talking to someone in person? If not someone currently registered or lurking here, then someone who has a support animal ho a month from now thinks they might be ready to date, searches with "date" and "ESA" in there search, and lands here.
I had thought earlier that some of the more enthusiastic no responses might have been less so If someone was asking for himself or herself because they had an ESA. Most people would at least qualify their response or add to their "I don't think so" by commending the person for taking steps to better their life. And genuinely mean it.
You are obviously a very compassionate person. Personally my response was probably more curt because the OP was theoretical, not personal.
In most cases the internet is not where you come for touchy feely support. If you ask, people gonna answer.
It helps if you have a intro post that explains to people that you are sensitive on the subject and would like well thought out, kind, responses. This wasn't one of those cases.
I know that one of the more terse responses was from a person that doesn't want a dog at all as they would find it inconvenient (as is their right).
Heck, I would put it out there that if you are starting to date, or thinking about it, you better get some thick skin fast. OLD will be much harder on them, then responses to questions here.
It's a basic fact that people will not want to date you for a bunch of different reasons. Is one reason really any better or worse than the other?
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Just one of many examples: There are many military vets out there who choose an ESA over taking pills for their PTSD. ESA also don't cause erectile dysfunction nor do they make you fat.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
You are obviously a very compassionate person. Personally my response was probably more curt because the OP was theoretical, not personal.
In most cases the internet is not where you come for touchy feely support. If you ask, people gonna answer.
It helps if you have a intro post that explains to people that you are sensitive on the subject and would like well thought out, kind, responses. This wasn't one of those cases.
I know that one of the more terse responses was from a person that doesn't want a dog at all as they would find it inconvenient (as is their right).
Heck, I would put it out there that if you are starting to date, or thinking about it, you better get some thick skin fast. OLD will be much harder on them, then responses to questions here.
It's a basic fact that people will not want to date you for a bunch of different reasons. Is one reason really any better or worse than the other?
I also wanted to add that sometimes when I read a 'would you do ______?" post I think perhaps the poster is considering doing the activity they ask about and are asking in a rather round about way for other people's experiences and conclusions. (as opposed to just opinions about what they think they would do)
I also wanted to add that sometimes when I read a 'would you do ______?" post I think perhaps the poster is considering doing the activity they ask about and are asking in a rather round about way for other people's experiences and conclusions. (as opposed to just opinions about what they think they would do)
Agreed. And wouldn't a response in that nature be the most helpful? IMO sharing actual IRL experience gives more weight than who's answer is morally correct, the kind of debate these threads turn into.
And with that, I'll relate I went on a first date with a man who had an ESA. I believe he said the dog was trained for that and was registered, so maybe that means it was a service animal, but the service was emotional support...I didn't do a lot of research on the difference or why that should be important to the situation.
I love dogs, so that counts. I enjoyed the walk, and then he seemed to cut everything short and had to be somewhere else. Was it his emotional state? Was he having anxiety? Was it me? Was it the dog? Idk, like with any other date that may have ended before I wanted it to, I can't take it personally or point fingers, since I don't know the answer. The ESA was a non-contributor to the situation entirely. It was the man who made the decisions.
There are many first dates I have been on that would have turned out much better had the other been just an ESA.
Just one of many examples: There are many military vets out there who choose an ESA over taking pills for their PTSD. ESA also don't cause erectile dysfunction nor do they make you fat.
It’s not really a good example since people with PTSD can often get service animals specifically trained to help them. It’s one of the many disabilities that may qualify for a service animal. An ESA may be trained, but they aren’t trained to do specific tasks like a service animal.
On the internet, though, aren't we always talking to someone in person? If not someone currently registered or lurking here, then someone who has a support animal ho a month from now thinks they might be ready to date, searches with "date" and "ESA" in there search, and lands here.
I had thought earlier that some of the more enthusiastic no responses might have been less so If someone was asking for himself or herself because they had an ESA. Most people would at least qualify their response or add to their "I don't think so" by commending the person for taking steps to better their life. And genuinely mean it.
Maybe most people of emotional intelligence would, but it's also intriguing to think how someone with a mental illness or challenging circumstances can sometimes be more gracious in response to that type of harsh dismissal. It's just all a reflection of what's inside, isn't it.
*support animal ho bolded for entertainment purposes only
The biggest jump to conclusions being made here is that if a date shows up toting an ESA, that the animal is a legitimate ESA and not a pet that the person is pretending is an ESA in order to get special privileges that should be reserved for the disabled.
Because in housing a good solid 99% of ESAs are not ESAs, they are pets with or without a fake certificate ordered off the internet in order to get the pet into a no pets rental. So the chances are not high that the person with the dog actually is getting treatment for some sort of medical disorder. Real true emotional support animals that are being used to support a person's disability are actually quite rare.
But it is only businesses and landlords who are not allowed to inquire about disabilities, so if your date shows up with an ESA, go ahead and inquire about why they need an ESA. In most cases, they are going to tell you that the dog is just their pet and they cleverly ordered a certificate online so they can take the dog everywhere with them. And keep in mind that even if the dog is a legal ESA, prescribed by a mental health care professional, it is not legally allowed in restaurants or any place that sells food and not legally allowed in any other sort of business of any kind without the manager's permission.
Some people don't care. On the rental forums as soon a s anyone complains about not finding a rental to take their cat or dog, there will be a couple pf persons who immediately pop up to tell them to get an ESA certificate online. I'm sure those informative persons who be absolutely happy to date anyone who is showing up with a fake ESA. it's not like no one will date them. Just some folks don't approve of faking a disability to take advantage of laws intended to protect the truly disabled.
The biggest jump to conclusions being made here is that if a date shows up toting an ESA, that the animal is a legitimate ESA and not a pet that the person is pretending is an ESA in order to get special privileges that should be reserved for the disabled.
No, a jump to conclusion is what you're doing by assuming that the reality has to be limited to one of two possibilities: either the ESA is illegitimate and the person is dishonest, or the person who has it is a train wreck.
Also welcome to back up that claim that "a good solid 99%" of ESAs are not ESAs. I'd be interested to see those numbers.
I think there is a difference between answering a question on a forum, and how you would speak to a person in the situation.
I might answer "hell no!" here, but certainly wouldn't say it that way to a guy with an ESA who asked me out.
Well, see, that is just it. You wouldn't say that in person because on some level you know it's wrong to say it, whether it's because it's rude, it's hurtful, it's harmful, or it's unproductive.
So saying it here is no different. In fact, I feel that it is even worse in a forum because a forum is broadcasting the language out into society, where many people will read it, not just one person. Forums like this are part of public discourse. Maybe it's not academic or authoritative, but it is a reflection of public attitudes. People then get the impression that it's okay to disparage people with mental illness as "crazies" and so on. Then people feed on each other and continue to reinforce the biases in one another, and biases lead to discrimination and other societal ills. I am willing to wager that some of the people who don't like what Homina, Moongirl, Sonic Spork, Adamexe, or I have said are repping each other behind the scenes and going on about how hypersensitive, politically correct, or "woke" we are or some such. They're basically giving one another approval to both be mean and to promote stigma.
It is a bit of an eye-opener for me, actually. It's a reminder that there is still a long, long way to go before it is common knowledge that mental illness is like any other illness, something that is not a character flaw, a moral short-coming, or make-believe, and it is not something that should be mocked. It is as physiological as psychological. The brain is living tissue, and it is susceptible to illness and injury just like any other body part. It would seem a number people here still don't understand that. The next time someone goes on about mental illness, my advice is for them to ask themselves, "Would I speak about someone who has cancer this way?" If not, then it's time to reflect.
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