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I also think that, like so many questions that appear on this forum, it depends a great deal on how the connection formed in the first place.
When we look at it like online dating, where one can attempt to match up with person after person (obviously depending on how online dating works for the individual and acknowledging that there is variance in that, but assuming that someone gets good results there, even)... You will be evaluating based on the information you get, as you get it, without any initial emotional investment in the person necessarily. Because they are just a stranger you're finding out some early facts about.
But if you know someone organically in some in person setting for a time, and develop feelings for them or find that you get along famously and you come to that appreciation for them... You might learn some piece of information that you might have considered a problem with a stranger, but you're willing to compromise on with this person you know and like a lot.
So yeah, again, I could only think of this on a very case by case basis. There are just too many variables to it.
As for people with mental health issues, especially mood based ones like anxiety and depression, I would not instantly rule out someone who had that, knew they did, and had found good tools (such as an ESA) to cope and manage. In fact, that speaks to being realistic, not blaming others for your situation, being self aware, and doing the best you can with your life. I am aware that I have a likely hereditary leaning to mental health issues myself, and at rare times in my life that were not necessarily triggered by externalities, got stuck in a spiral of depression. It has, a couple of times, been bad enough that I pretty much lost interest in life, brushed up against suicidal ideation, and struggled to get out of bed...fighting my way out of that feels like trying to climb out of a well, it's HARD. I learned a number of tricks to use at the earliest signs of that kind of thinking and feeling, things that have the power to halt its progress. And I use them. And if deprived of them, indeed I could wind up in a very bad place.
Does that make me something other than a functional adult? No. It could have, if I had refused to do what I could to take what control I could over it. So in that sense, a legit ESA is a good sign, not a bad one. At least, I think so.
An emotional support animal is only a "protected class" in the person's residence. It is not protected at work, or in stores, or in restaurants.
So, unless that first date is in the person's home or at a public park, they have no legal right to bring their ESA with them. Starting right off you are dating an entitled person who cares nothing about legalities.
Emotional support animals are only for persons with mental health disabilities or emotional health disabilities that are severe enough to affect their quality of life.
You consider someone who has a mental health or emotional health disability that is severe enough to affect their quality of life to be an entitled person who cares nothing about legalities if they bring their ESA to a cafe?
So now people with mental or emotional disabilities are entitled for wanting to live as normal a life as possible?
They're just supposed to sit in their homes?
I am so glad most people are FAR more compassionate and in touch with the world than most of the people on this thread.
I also think that, like so many questions that appear on this forum, it depends a great deal on how the connection formed in the first place.
When we look at it like online dating, where one can attempt to match up with person after person (obviously depending on how online dating works for the individual and acknowledging that there is variance in that, but assuming that someone gets good results there, even)... You will be evaluating based on the information you get, as you get it, without any initial emotional investment in the person necessarily. Because they are just a stranger you're finding out some early facts about.
But if you know someone organically in some in person setting for a time, and develop feelings for them or find that you get along famously and you come to that appreciation for them... You might learn some piece of information that you might have considered a problem with a stranger, but you're willing to compromise on with this person you know and like a lot.
So yeah, again, I could only think of this on a very case by case basis. There are just too many variables to it.
As for people with mental health issues, especially mood based ones like anxiety and depression, I would not instantly rule out someone who had that, knew they did, and had found good tools (such as an ESA) to cope and manage. In fact, that speaks to being realistic, not blaming others for your situation, being self aware, and doing the best you can with your life. I am aware that I have a likely hereditary leaning to mental health issues myself, and at rare times in my life that were not necessarily triggered by externalities, got stuck in a spiral of depression. It has, a couple of times, been bad enough that I pretty much lost interest in life, brushed up against suicidal ideation, and struggled to get out of bed...fighting my way out of that feels like trying to climb out of a well, it's HARD. I learned a number of tricks to use at the earliest signs of that kind of thinking and feeling, things that have the power to halt its progress. And I use them. And if deprived of them, indeed I could wind up in a very bad place.
Does that make me something other than a functional adult? No. It could have, if I had refused to do what I could to take what control I could over it. So in that sense, a legit ESA is a good sign, not a bad one. At least, I think so.
Thank you.
What makes me laugh about this thread is the number of people who apparently need some assistance in emotional wellness and functioning who get on here and call people "crazies" and so on. There's not a human being alive who doesn't have something they need to work on. I read some of the comments here and I really want to ask a few people, "So, who hurt you that you are so callous? Who failed to show you and teach you compassion and understanding so that you have none to extend to others?"
It's not the preference itself I take issue with. As Usayit has said, everyone can choose who to date. Chowhound said he had enough issues of his own on his plate. I get it. Perfectly understandable.
But when people start talking about "crutches" and "crazies" and using stigmatizing language, that's when they lose me. They don't stop to consider that their words paint people with mental illness as somehow unworthy or less than as human beings. That kind of talk just drives people who need help underground. It is harmful, and it is wrong.
Unfortunately, while I am disappointed, I cannot say I am surprised. This forum often strikes me as a lot of miserable, lonely people waiting for threads like this just so they can be snarky, self-righteous, and mean.
And they want to talk about OTHER people's emotional issues? They need to look in the mirror.
What makes me laugh about this thread is the number of people who apparently need some assistance in emotional wellness and functioning who get on here and call people "crazies" and so on. There's not a human being alive who doesn't have something they need to work on. I read some of the comments here and I really want to ask a few people, "So, who hurt you that you are so callous? Who failed to show you and teach you compassion and understanding so that you have none to extend to others?"
It's not the preference itself I take issue with. As Usayit has said, everyone can choose who to date. Chowhound said he had enough issues of his own on his plate. I get it. Perfectly understandable.
But when people start talking about "crutches" and "crazies" and using stigmatizing language, that's when they lose me. They don't stop to consider that their words paint people with mental illness as somehow unworthy or less than as human beings. That kind of talk just drives people who need help underground. It is harmful, and it is wrong.
Unfortunately, while I am disappointed, I cannot say I am surprised. This forum often strikes me as a lot of miserable, lonely people waiting for threads like this just so they can be snarky, self-righteous, and mean.
And they want to talk about OTHER people's emotional issues? They need to look in the mirror.
I'm not naming names or anything but I've been here a LONG time now and there are indeed those who just right out of the gate are snarky when they need not be. I stated I have no interest in dating someone with an ESA but if someone else does, have at it, it's a free world. We need to probably have more of a you do you and I'll do me approach, at least that's kind of how I've been looking at the world as I get older.
I have in the past made rude comments or whatever, but I've also realized it and walked it back and have apologized when needed.
Many people just double down on the rude when called out on it.
Another thread made me think of this...
Would you date someone that had an emotional support dog (or other animal)?
Not to be confused with an actual support dog that is trained to perform specific tasks.
No way. I need to be around an emotionally stable person. Someone who needs a dog around all the time for their emotional needs is someone using the animal as a crutch.
You consider someone who has a mental health or emotional health disability that is severe enough to affect their quality of life to be an entitled person who cares nothing about legalities if they bring their ESA to a cafe?
.
ESA are NOT allowed in public places like grocery stores or restaurants. Too many people think ESA have the same right to access that task-trained service dogs have, and they do not.
Ignorance and a lack of kidnness and compassion are not at the top of the dating list for most people as well, and that is just reality, too.
Substantively what constitutes kindness and compassion in dealing with someone who is using an emotional support animal?
First, I question the rationale behind the use of emotional support animals. I don't see evidence it works, I think they cause harm, so I don't see catering to people who have emotional support animals as constructive. Instead, I see this as enabling co-dependent behavior that is actively making the situation worse. When you make this argument that you are being compassionate here, I think you are well intended but nevertheless wrong.
If someone has anxiety about public speaking. Giving someone an emotional support animal, might make them feel better in the moment, but that isn't a successful way to treat anxiety. The more you cater to someone's anxiety, the more likely you strengthen it and turn it into a phobia. Giving someone an emotional support animal here is not compassion, nor kind, instead it is enabling codependent behavior that is making this person worse off.
What does extinguish anxiety is exposure therapy. If you look at how toastmasters works, when you join, you give a bunch of speeches to other people in toastmasters initially. Initially you may feel a little fear, but you feel the fear and act anyways even in the presence of fear. But here is the thing, the more you act in the presence of fear, the more you overcome your fear of public speaking and you beat your anxiety. Its the stuff we overcome that give us our confidence.
Coddling people's weaknesses is not kind, nor compassionate. It's an ineffective strategy getting in the way of them actually taking the steps necessary to address and improve their lives.
If someone is nervous about dating, acknowledge your nervousness and move on. But don't show up with an emotional support animal. Its drawing the wrong type of attention to your problems - that is making your problems the focus of your date. Everyone has problems but do want to turn your problems into crux of your identity on your first date or would you rather talk about what were the most important lessons you learned about life in the playground or almost anything else?
I don't know about you, but my problems don't define me, and they are the last thing I want to discuss on a first date. I think that is true for most people. If you are just talking about your problems on your first date, honestly, that is just a really bad first date.
I wouldn't be bovvered by it as long as I was really into the person.
I don't have any mental health diagnosis nor any pets at all let alone need for a ESA, but rather than pat myself on the back and be smugly self-proud, I acknowledge a lot of this is just due to LUCK.
In the past I had anxiety and depression (the common cold of mental illness if you will) but my therapist said she thought it was circumstantial, ie caused by external factors rather than internal. Once I removed myself from certain situations, the symptoms naturally resolved.
But I chalk that up to luck because there are people who cannot control their mental health that way and must use medication or therapy tools such as an ESA.
That doesn't make them defective or bad partners though. Its very ableist to assume that!
I know a man who uses a ESA. He has been in a healthy relationship for 25 years. He had a very important job at the Pentagon before retirement. He is a very kind and good person. I had dinner at his house once and he had the dog sitting on his lap the while time while eating. Didn't bother me.
Just because I don't do this doesn't mean I think its ok for me to smugly judge others for it or think I am better than them.
Last edited by moongirl00; 01-25-2022 at 03:19 AM..
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