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I suggest that you educate yourself on ESAs. They have been immensely helpful to people with PTSD, phobias, and other conditions involving anxiety. These people include everyone from victims of violent crime to combat veterans. ESAs have also been helpful to people with depression.
Just because an illness or injury is not outwardly visible as with someone who is blind or uses a wheelchair, that does not mean it is any less an illness or injury.
Also, I will ask you and others here to be mindful and not stigmatize mental illness or the people who have it. Your comments on that thread were not "politically incorrect." They were wrong, offensive, and cruel.
Everyone has problems but not everyone leads with their problems, and most people rarely lead with their problems on a first date.
No one has an obligation to date anyone. The reason we go on dates is to figure out if my life is better with this person in my life than without them. Additionally, we want to figure out, can I manage them dealing with their issues, and can they manage me dealing with my issues? Dating has aspects that are both cooperative - two people working together toward a common goal, but also aspects that are adversarial, especially the early part of dating. Dating is competitive, we all have options about who is our next best alternative including if our next best alternative is to just be single, but we have options and don't have to date anyone in particular.
If someone is leading with their problems on a date, that is incredibly socially miscalibrated. When you see someone acting really socially miscalibrated an excellent question to ask yourself is why is this person engaging in this behavior? Especially why are they engaging in this behavior in this specific situation?
The reasons we don't generally lead with all of our problems on a first date is first, dating is competitive, but also because a first date is not the time and place to reveal all of our problems. There are often a lot of things in our lives that are private and intimate, and we reveal them to each other as we get closer emotionally at the appropriate time and place. That is however not the first date.
Cory Clark is a social psychologist and a visiting professor at the University of Pennsylvania, and she has a piece about the motivations that manipulative people often have for assuming the role of the victim.
Quote:
Victimhood signaling is associated with numerous morally undesirable personality traits, such as narcissism, Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and exploit others for self-benefit), a sense of entitlement, and lower honesty and humility.
Showing up on a first date with an emotional support animal is a very strong type of victimhood signaling. Ask yourself, who does that and who specifically decides to do that on a first date?
Additionally, most people on dates are on their best behavior on a first date. They will closely monitor their behavior, maybe use the 'proper' knife and forks at dinner. If this man or woman needs to have an emotional support animal on their first date when presumably they are on their best behavior what do you think they will be like later? If they can't handle a first date without an emotional support animal, are they actually ready for the give and take of an emotionally healthy relationship? Do they actually have the coping skills to deal with you as a peer or are you positioning yourself for a lifetime caretaking position, with someone not capable of dealing with the tribulations of life? Do you really want to be a relationship with someone who NEEDS an emotional support animal to manage a first date? I am not denying this person has problems but is it your responsibility to bring this person's specific problems into your life? When life gets tough and you and your partner are facing the adversity that life sometimes brings, is this person actually going to be there for you? Are they even capable of that if they wanted to?
There are people who tend to lead with their victimhood status and there are people who tend to be drawn to people who need to be fixed. Co-dependents and narcissists tend to end up dating each other for just this reason.
But if you don't want to be dragged into these roles, date people who are generally pretty competent at managing the day-to-day problems in their lives and who are not leading with how badly they need to be fixed, nor rescued. There is a wide range of men and women we all could date, but if you are choosing to pursue a relationship with someone who needs an emotional support animal on a first date, a question I would be thinking long and hard about is are you and/or them better off with this person in your life or would you both be better off, just being single? Also educate yourself about what type of people do really badly in terms of subjective wellbeing in long term relationships.
Everyone has problems but not everyone leads with their problems, and most people rarely lead with their problems on a first date.
No one has an obligation to date anyone. The reason we go on dates is to figure out if my life is better with this person in my life than without them. Additionally, we want to figure out, can I manage them dealing with their issues, and can they manage me dealing with my issues? Dating has aspects that are both cooperative - two people working together toward a common goal, but also aspects that are adversarial, especially the early part of dating. Dating is competitive, we all have options about who is our next best alternative including if our next best alternative is to just be single, but we have options and don't have to date anyone in particular.
If someone is leading with their problems on a date, that is incredibly socially miscalibrated. When you see someone acting really socially miscalibrated an excellent question to ask yourself is why is this person engaging in this behavior? Especially why are they engaging in this behavior in this specific situation?
The reasons we don't generally lead with all of our problems on a first date is first, dating is competitive, but also because a first date is not the time and place to reveal all of our problems. There are often a lot of things in our lives that are private and intimate, and we reveal them to each other as we get closer emotionally at the appropriate time and place. That is however not the first date.
Cory Clark is a social psychologist and a visiting professor at the University of Pennsylvania, and she has a piece about the motivations that manipulative people often have for assuming the role of the victim.
Showing up on a first date with an emotional support animal is a very strong type of victimhood signaling. Ask yourself, who does that and who specifically decides to do that on a first date?
Additionally, most people on dates are on their best behavior on a first date. They will closely monitor their behavior, maybe use the 'proper' knife and forks at dinner. If this man or woman needs to have an emotional support animal on their first date when presumably they are on their best behavior what do you think they will be like later? If they can't handle a first date without an emotional support animal, are they actually ready for the give and take of an emotionally healthy relationship? Do they actually have the coping skills to deal with you as a peer or are you positioning yourself for a lifetime caretaking position, with someone not capable of dealing with the tribulations of life? Do you really want to be a relationship with someone who NEEDS an emotional support animal to manage a first date? I am not denying this person has problems but is it your responsibility to bring this person's specific problems into your life? When life gets tough and you and your partner are facing the adversity that life sometimes brings, is this person actually going to be there for you? Are they even capable of that if they wanted to?
There are people who tend to lead with their victimhood status and there are people who tend to be drawn to people who need to be fixed. Co-dependents and narcissists tend to end up dating each other for just this reason.
But if you don't want to be dragged into these roles, date people who are generally pretty competent at managing the day-to-day problems in their lives and who are not leading with how badly they need to be fixed, nor rescued. There is a wide range of men and women we all could date, but if you are choosing to pursue a relationship with someone who needs an emotional support animal on a first date, a question I would be thinking long and hard about is are you and/or them better off with this person in your life or would you both be better off, just being single? Also educate yourself about what type of people do really badly in terms of subjective wellbeing in long term relationships.
That was a mouthful.
I personally have no problem with people who need an ESA. I do have problems dating long winded people.
I am married but if I wasn't, I would be open to dating somebody with an ESA. I'm not really into "best foot forward" kind of dating. If marriage is the goal, then it helps to know what is very important to other people. If having an ESA was preventing them from making progress in other areas of their life, then that would be taken into consideration.
Another thread made me think of this...
Would you date someone that had an emotional support dog (or other animal)?
Not to be confused with an actual support dog that is trained to perform specific tasks.
Date on a casual basis, perhaps. But to date with any seriousness, I couldn't simply because we as a couple would not be able to visit my family without perpetually having the dog in tow. (Several of my family members have allergic reactions to dogs--even breeds that are "hypoallergenic" set them off.) I'd chalk that one up to general incompatibitiy and move on to dating someone else.
Also, while ESA animals have been a boon for those who genuinely suffer from various mental conditions, it's all to common for people to use them as an attention-seeking device or to try and force landlords into accepting animals into pet-free rentals. The latter is manipulative behavior and I generally try to avoid interacting with people who use their supposed victimhood to excuse poor behavior and to get what they want from others--be they employers, landlords, friends, family, or romantic partners.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Twist
Another thread made me think of this...
Would you date someone that had an emotional support dog (or other animal)?
Not to be confused with an actual support dog that is trained to perform specific tasks.
Nope, no dice. I work in the grocery industry and while I think there are some who benefit legitimately from ESAs, more often than not the use of them are by people who want an excuse to carry around at best a unsocialized animal and at worst carry around a hazardous animal. I had a store manager who got crazy looked at because he stopped a customer with a very long snake that claimed ESA from entering the store. I should not have to explain why that store in Atlanta does not want a huge snake anywhere near the store. Honestly, I wouldn’t date anyone who legit needed one because I don’t want to deal with the issues that required them to have one.
I suggest that you educate yourself on ESAs. They have been immensely helpful to people with PTSD, phobias, and other conditions involving anxiety. These people include everyone from victims of violent crime to combat veterans. ESAs have also been helpful to people with depression.
Just because an illness or injury is not outwardly visible as with someone who is blind or uses a wheelchair, that does not mean it is any less an illness or injury.
Also, I will ask you and others here to be mindful and not stigmatize mental illness or the people who have it. Your comments on that thread were not "politically incorrect." They were wrong, offensive, and cruel.
I agree here as someone who struggled with depression most of my life.
I could never pass judgement on someone who has a ESA. If it works for them and helps them achieve a more normal life, I fully encourage them.
Unfortunately, there are many people who fake ESAs and even Support dogs so that they can have an excuse to bring the dog everywhere even against the permission of a private business. For support dogs, you can easily recognize them if you look at how they behave as a result of their training; not so much for ESAs I've seen this numerous of times and it makes me sick! It gives those that are truly in need a very difficult time in daily life. It would be in the best interest of the programs to work with federal authorities for actually require registration and licensing so that a real working ESA or Support dog can be easily verified. Really no different from people who have fake tags to park in handicap parking spots; police should have the right to ticket the individual for violations.
I rarely use a person's imperfections even faults as a red flag initially when it comes to dating. I always give them a chance. Ultimately the dating process is to build chemistry, figure each other out, to see about compatibility. Everyone has faults, weaknesses, and issues; as well as strengths and benefits they offer. It is a matter of determining if their faults is something you can live with and weight against other great things they have to offer. I always go into it knowing that people really don't change but together as a couple things can be manageable and happy.
Everyone also has the right to who they date and don't date... So if someone who goes on a date with me and notices scars on my arm from past self harm, I would rather them talk to me about it; I don't take it personally when they choose that that alone isn't something they can handle. Anyone that has the courage to bring it up for discussion with the intention to learn more about me rather than pass judgement usually gains a lot of respect from me; doesn't matter if the date continues or not.
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