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I say it's because of the physical attraction part.
I always say if every man was born as Brad Pitt and every woman was born as Angelina Jolie (or take your pick)
... or maybe we all looked different but looks (including height and breast size and all that stuff) was something that mattered as much as eye color.
Then, people would get together based on factors of true compatibility.
You'd still have problems in the LTR stage, but the dating stage would be much different.
I agree, I feel that if we ever got to a point where people were all genetically engineered to have the build of Olympic gymnasts with conventionally attractive facial features AND evolved into a post scarcity society(all it would take is 4 inventions which are theoretically possible, a cheap source of energy, a cheap source of nutrition, and a way to strip the salt from ocean water), thus creating a world where everyone is on an equal playing field dating an marriage would completely change as our dating selection would be solely based on compatible personalities and common interests, because looks and income disparity would no longer be a factor.
It's one of the reasons why dating was so much easier in our late teens/early 20's since 80% of our dating pool was at least attractive enough(for most people that age is their physical peak) and most of our competition for the object of our affections were on the same playing field as us financially(most of us were broke at that age). so at that age personality and common interests were much larger factors in forming relationships than later in life when "did she keep herself inshape" and "what is he bringing to the table" become much more of a dominate factor.
I think dating can be difficult because a lot of people are dealing with problems and because some problems are easier to spot than others and some problems are just easier to be managed. In terms of substance use disorder, 12% of the population has a problem with booze and another 2 or 3% have a problem with another drug. About 1 in 10 people will at some point in their life will deal with a mental illness and 1 in 25 are dealing with a chronic mental illness.
Now some of the mental illnesses are less severe and easier to manage than others and some people just have an illness that is more or less acute. I have had girlfriends with depression, anxiety, ADD, and were on the spectrum and these issues weren't dealbreakers in those relationships, but it can take a while to spot some of these issues and then a little while longer to decide if they are dealbreakers for you.
16 to 18% of the population has a personality disorder, including 4 to 6% are psychopaths. Psychopaths have a deficit in affiliative empathy, but their cognitive empathy works great. Affiliative empathy has to do with how much you care about others and appreciate their struggles. When a young mom is dealing with a screaming infant trying to figure out if it needs its diaper changed or is hungry, that is affiliative empathy. Cognitive empathy is the ability to correctly predict how another person is going to act in a situation. When a fox stalks a chicken, that is cognitive empathy. When the fox experiences no guilt about killing the chicken, that is what a deficit in affiliative empathy means.
Psychopaths because they have lack affiliative empathy, they are not struggling with anxiety, so it is easier for them to ask women out and they constitute a much larger share of the effective pool of guys asking women out. They likely just come across as really self-confident. In the past year, roughly 20% of the population had some sort of issue with anxiety. These are the guys who struggle the most with asking women out, so these guys will be a much smaller proportion of the average women's dating pool. Between the guys with anxiety having the most problems asking women out and the psychopaths having zero approach anxiety, I wouldn't be surprised if 20% of the men regularly asking out women are psychopaths.
Now the reason I mention this is that I think a lot of the guys who struggle with women both don't fully understand how much more dangerous dating feels for the average woman vs the average man, but also don't understand why women can be so needlessly harsh when turning them down. It's a little unclear exactly how frequently women are dealing with date rape or just really sketchy dating situations, because a lot of it doesn't get reported, but almost every woman even if she hasn't been sexually assaulted herself knows some woman who has.
Now I think that there is an adverse selection process in the dating pool as well. Basically, people with problems have a harder time both making and sustaining relationships and so their effect share of the dating pool is much higher.
What I am getting at is there are good reasons, that a lot of the dates you go on probably shouldn't go anywhere.
Now on top of that there are issues of general compatibility, maybe you want kids, and she doesn't. Maybe you are tight with money, and she is not. There are appearance requirements, that people have for dating partners. There can be preferences for height, boob size, how thick or thin someone is, and some people have much better options than others.
Lastly dating is somewhat of a skill and certain people thrive more in some environments than others and some people haven't figure out where they thrive the most. I think dating is easier when you can come with a way of doing it that you enjoy or at least don't hate.
There is a lot of luck involved, but you have to be willing to take advantage of luck when it appears. Every relationship and date I had eventually failed before I met my wife. The same was true for her. But when we did meet each other we were willing to put in the work to keep the relationship going. A lot of people would have pulled the plug if they were either of us because "the course of love never runs smooth". Dating is just the first step in a potential relationship. Usually as you get to know each other, whether it's one night, a few weeks or a couple of years, one of you is going to come to the conclusion that the other one is not for them. And if you both get past that hurdle, then comes the real challenges of living together, putting up with and accepting each other's quirks and shortcomings, problems with families, etc., etc. It's a journey, not a destination.
I wont pretend to be an expert, but I heard a podcast of someone claiming the sexes are increasingly diverging in terms of values, interests, etc, and because of this a larger and larger quantity of "would be" potential partners in the past are found unsuitable.
This is also compounded on points of divergence increasing as factors of importance. Things like for example politics have always had differences between the sexes, but the weight that people put into not having a too large divergence within for example politics has grown.
It is then further compounded on the increased digital connectivity, that gives us an illusion of our increased number of lesser opportunites thus appearing to equate to "more choice".
I wont pretend to be an expert, but I heard a podcast of someone claiming the sexes are increasingly diverging in terms of values, interests, etc, and because of this a larger and larger quantity of "would be" potential partners in the past are found unsuitable.
This is also compounded on points of divergence increasing as factors of importance. Things like for example politics have always had differences between the sexes, but the weight that people put into not having a too large divergence within for example politics has grown.
It is then further compounded on the increased digital connectivity, that gives us an illusion of our increased number of lesser opportunites thus appearing to equate to "more choice".
I could absolutely see that this is the case. I just hope it’s not too late for me to find my person.
I think dating can be difficult because a lot of people are dealing with problems and because some problems are easier to spot than others and some problems are just easier to be managed. In terms of substance use disorder, 12% of the population has a problem with booze and another 2 or 3% have a problem with another drug. About 1 in 10 people will at some point in their life will deal with a mental illness and 1 in 25 are dealing with a chronic mental illness.
Now some of the mental illnesses are less severe and easier to manage than others and some people just have an illness that is more or less acute. I have had girlfriends with depression, anxiety, ADD, and were on the spectrum and these issues weren't dealbreakers in those relationships, but it can take a while to spot some of these issues and then a little while longer to decide if they are dealbreakers for you.
16 to 18% of the population has a personality disorder, including 4 to 6% are psychopaths. Psychopaths have a deficit in affiliative empathy, but their cognitive empathy works great. Affiliative empathy has to do with how much you care about others and appreciate their struggles. When a young mom is dealing with a screaming infant trying to figure out if it needs its diaper changed or is hungry, that is affiliative empathy. Cognitive empathy is the ability to correctly predict how another person is going to act in a situation. When a fox stalks a chicken, that is cognitive empathy. When the fox experiences no guilt about killing the chicken, that is what a deficit in affiliative empathy means.
Psychopaths because they have lack affiliative empathy, they are not struggling with anxiety, so it is easier for them to ask women out and they constitute a much larger share of the effective pool of guys asking women out. They likely just come across as really self-confident. In the past year, roughly 20% of the population had some sort of issue with anxiety. These are the guys who struggle the most with asking women out, so these guys will be a much smaller proportion of the average women's dating pool. Between the guys with anxiety having the most problems asking women out and the psychopaths having zero approach anxiety, I wouldn't be surprised if 20% of the men regularly asking out women are psychopaths.
Now the reason I mention this is that I think a lot of the guys who struggle with women both don't fully understand how much more dangerous dating feels for the average woman vs the average man, but also don't understand why women can be so needlessly harsh when turning them down. It's a little unclear exactly how frequently women are dealing with date rape or just really sketchy dating situations, because a lot of it doesn't get reported, but almost every woman even if she hasn't been sexually assaulted herself knows some woman who has.
Now I think that there is an adverse selection process in the dating pool as well. Basically, people with problems have a harder time both making and sustaining relationships and so their effect share of the dating pool is much higher.
What I am getting at is there are good reasons, that a lot of the dates you go on probably shouldn't go anywhere.
Now on top of that there are issues of general compatibility, maybe you want kids, and she doesn't. Maybe you are tight with money, and she is not. There are appearance requirements, that people have for dating partners. There can be preferences for height, boob size, how thick or thin someone is, and some people have much better options than others.
Lastly dating is somewhat of a skill and certain people thrive more in some environments than others and some people haven't figure out where they thrive the most. I think dating is easier when you can come with a way of doing it that you enjoy or at least don't hate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishViking
I wont pretend to be an expert, but I heard a podcast of someone claiming the sexes are increasingly diverging in terms of values, interests, etc, and because of this a larger and larger quantity of "would be" potential partners in the past are found unsuitable.
This is also compounded on points of divergence increasing as factors of importance. Things like for example politics have always had differences between the sexes, but the weight that people put into not having a too large divergence within for example politics has grown.
It is then further compounded on the increased digital connectivity, that gives us an illusion of our increased number of lesser opportunites thus appearing to equate to "more choice".
I just had some thoughts, and I will not bother to start a new, separate thread. We can discuss it here. With all of the challenges, the way the dating pool seems to be heavily weighted with disordered people, the way women and men seem to be diverging in values and interests, and the way that the whole incel thing seems to be sweeping through and taking hold (I’ve even seen a few married men with kids get swept into it, which is confusing to me) - are the odds pretty much hopeless in finding a partner for the most part these days? Is it worth even trying? Are there even any good prospects left over say age 25/30?
Sometimes I just sit and marvel at how some people even are able to find a match and form relationships at all, especially people over 40.
I just had some thoughts, and I will not bother to start a new, separate thread. We can discuss it here. With all of the challenges, the way the dating pool seems to be heavily weighted with disordered people, the way women and men seem to be diverging in values and interests, and the way that the whole incel thing seems to be sweeping through and taking hold (I’ve even seen a few married men with kids get swept into it, which is confusing to me) - are the odds pretty much hopeless in finding a partner for the most part these days? Is it worth even trying? Are there even any good prospects left over say age 25/30?
Sometimes I just sit and marvel at how some people even are able to find a match and form relationships at all, especially people over 40.
The people having success are not the ones believing everything they read on the internet. They’re also not sitting around reading about what other people do and taking it as gospel.
There is no magical secret you’ll unlock if only you read one more article. The worst thing you can do is waste one more day reading a biased article/blog/rambling and believing some stranger’s experience has anything to do with you.
Times have changed. Dating today is not like dating of yesteryear. In the past, dating and marriage was almost compulsory for survival, shelter, and family. Those values do not really translate well to the society we live in today. People (mainly women) today are more independent and can take care of themselves. Which took a large incentive for dating/marriage away. We also have dating apps, things are more expensive, people are more individualistic, and more people are looking for genuine connections, which are hard to come by.
People trying to control what cannot be controlled. You cannot control for attraction, chemistry, compatibility, timing, etc. The only thing that you can control is how much effort you put into making yourself known, who you choose to allow in your space, and being social. Everything else is out of your hands.
A big part of dating doesn't make sense (IMHO). To me there is nothing natural about seeing a random person in a store, on the street, or on an app, and just being so drawn to them that you want to ask them out on a date. Or even talk to them. It honestly just feels forced. I can't imagine being so interested in a stranger that I want to spend time with them, let alone date them. But I understand my definition of dating may be different from others.
Unrealistic standards and expectations. Society and the media has deluded people into thinking romantic relationships/love is an automatic guaranteed rite of passage for everyone. Lots of people are walking around with this Disney princess mindset refusing to acknowledge that reality is NO WHERE near what it is often represented to be in movies, books, etc. So I think a lot of people also struggle because they are realizing reality does not match what they have been told/taught.
It all comes down to luck, timing, and chance to come across an opportunity where you can meet someone you like, the feeling is mutual, and you are good for each other.
I’ve heard people speculate that it’s only ~10-20% of males that can just “hit it and quit it” and move from female to female. But these are the men that almost all women envision as their ideal mate. Some say it’s because women are somehow biologically engrained to want what other women would want (he’s mine now…I got him!).
No.
Where did you get your education on "almost all women"? Don't you have women in your life you can observe up close? Sisters, mom, aunts, cousins, friends?
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With all of the challenges, the way the dating pool seems to be heavily weighted with disordered people, the way women and men seem to be diverging in values and interests, and the way that the whole incel thing seems to be sweeping through and taking hold (I’ve even seen a few married men with kids get swept into it, which is confusing to me) - are the odds pretty much hopeless in finding a partner for the most part these days? Is it worth even trying? Are there even any good prospects left over say age 25/30? 
