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As a man, I would say I would be more interested in whether you've cheated before then strictly a body count, but there is a correlation, although obviously not an exact one, in that someone who is promiscuous is more likely to be someone willing to cheat as well. I think maybe guys who push for that are using strict body count as a proxy for potentially a cheater since that is something that people would be more likely to be dishonest about if asked directly. Once a cheater, always a cheater, or, at least, it's a huge red flag that would take considerable time and trust-building to overcome.
Of course, there are guys, mostly guys with toxic egos, who are intimidated to be with a woman with a higher body count than they have, too. I personally could care less about body count (my wife and I have never actually discussed it, although I'm 90% sure hers is higher since I was not very successful with the ladies in my single days, although neither of us were really "players" in our youth...).
As a man, I would say I would be more interested in whether you've cheated before then strictly a body count, but there is a correlation, although obviously not an exact one, in that someone who is promiscuous is more likely to be someone willing to cheat as well. I think maybe guys who push for that are using strict body count as a proxy for potentially a cheater since that is something that people would be more likely to be dishonest about if asked directly. Once a cheater, always a cheater, or, at least, it's a huge red flag that would take considerable time and trust-building to overcome.
Of course, there are guys, mostly guys with toxic egos, who are intimidated to be with a woman with a higher body count than they have, too. I personally could care less about body count (my wife and I have never actually discussed it, although I'm 90% sure hers is higher since I was not very successful with the ladies in my single days, although neither of us were really "players" in our youth...).
*Nods* I have heard that argument (cheating) before. I don't necessarily always think that's accurate and it has not been so with me. If anything I think that my "whatever" attitude about sex makes it really easy for me to be faithful.
I don't feel tempted to cheat. I hear supposedly very monogamous people talk about sleeping with others as this big temptation or a huge sacrifice they made for a relationship...I'm over here like, "if I wanted that, I'd be doing that. I'm not. Because I don't wanna."
But the thing is, again, this is great because I'm happy to let incompatible matches self-filter themselves out of the running. A man who believed this would probably be too jealous and suspicious for what I want. And may not be on board with my perspective and basic values about people in general, which is to say, I think that people are complex and nuanced. We learn, we grow, we do different things at different times in our lives. A man who struggles with that, will probably not be a good fit for me.
Husband and I actually made an agreement when I broke it off with my other partners and we discussed being exclusive, that if either of us ever wanted to be with someone else, there is room for that possibility but it's required and expected that we discuss it first. Not to ask for permission, but to talk it out and re-negotiate the structure of our relationship. I don't see it as likely that we ever will need to do that, but I needed both of us to be able to TRUST each other. I mean, why would anyone lie to a partner if they knew that it could be OK if they are honest?
As a man, I would say I would be more interested in whether you've cheated before then strictly a body count, but there is a correlation, although obviously not an exact one, in that someone who is promiscuous is more likely to be someone willing to cheat as well. I think maybe guys who push for that are using strict body count as a proxy for potentially a cheater since that is something that people would be more likely to be dishonest about if asked directly. Once a cheater, always a cheater, or, at least, it's a huge red flag that would take considerable time and trust-building to overcome.
Of course, there are guys, mostly guys with toxic egos, who are intimidated to be with a woman with a higher body count than they have, too. I personally could care less about body count (my wife and I have never actually discussed it, although I'm 90% sure hers is higher since I was not very successful with the ladies in my single days, although neither of us were really "players" in our youth...).
I don't agree with such 'correlation', # of partners imo has zip to do with fidelity. But I will say that someone who goes into a r/s with such a high level of concern about their partner being unfaithful is a red flag to me. Case in point: my most recent X played that "you're cheating, who is she, blah blah blah" card with me A LOT and... voila! *she* was the lying cheater. So when I hear that talk from someone, there's a strong possibility that they are engaging in a very old 'tactic' - projection.
I don't agree with such 'correlation', # of partners imo has zip to do with fidelity. But I will say that someone who goes into a r/s with such a high level of concern about their partner being unfaithful is a red flag to me. Case in point: my most recent X played that "you're cheating, who is she, blah blah blah" card with me A LOT and... voila! *she* was the lying cheater. So when I hear that talk from someone, there's a strong possibility that they are engaging in a very old 'tactic' - projection.
I definitely disagree that there is zero correlation. It's definitely not 100% either (Sonic being a perfect example).
I agree that there is a problem of projection of cheating by cheaters themselves, but that is more likely an issue once you're into a committed (or supposedly committed) relationship. Probing body count for red flags is something more likely to occur at the start in the feeling out stage. If you're getting gaslit over cheating in the first month or whatever of seeing someone, it should be easy to just leave immediately.
I definitely disagree that there is zero correlation. It's definitely not 100% either (Sonic being a perfect example).
I agree that there is a problem of projection of cheating by cheaters themselves, but that is more likely an issue once you're into a committed (or supposedly committed) relationship. Probing body count for red flags is something more likely to occur at the start in the feeling out stage. If you're getting gaslit over cheating in the first month or whatever of seeing someone, it should be easy to just leave immediately.
Well I mean a lot of it could have to do with the question of the whys and wherefores of any said promiscuous activity. Like I can even look back at some of the people I was with back in high school and realize that I was not really exercising my own agency that well. My boundaries kinda sucked. That was a skill I needed to learn. I did learn it though, and I feel in much better control of my boundaries now. In the more recent dating/playing phase I was in, if I let someone through my perimeter it was because I consciously chose to. Not because I passively gave in when they pushed.
Some of the younger women I've encountered in my sons' social circles don't seem to have learned how to manage their boundaries yet. One in particular, I don't suspect that she has been necessarily promiscuous or a cheater but because of struggles with boundaries, she's had a couple of guys be kinda too persistent, almost stalkerish. And I do put this at her doorstep and say she did have some responsibility (not all, just some) just because she knew something was off, but she still gave out her phone number, or agreed to hang out places where some guy was after she complained about him. Like she needs to learn to avoid and not encourage people who give her bad vibes. So her boyfriend, maybe did not have her necessarily cheat, but DID have to deal with the drama of the situation, which could have, I think, been avoided. But she was raised by an overbearing parent who didn't really teach her how to hold space for herself. She's passive and it causes her problems. I think that I would worry about a partner who doesn't seem to know how to say no and be situationally aware. It's not like you're going to be there every minute to have their back.
And as I've mentioned, when your boundaries are not functioning at their best, there is also a possibility of letting in people who take advantage in other ways. Moochy couch surfers for instance. Door to door sales people and scammers. Ya gotta know when NOT to trust.
I'm closer to your count than to your friend's, Moongirl. But the thing is as I've said, my "promiscuity" was packed into two distinct and brief periods of my life. I went for it with gusto when I was available, but when I'm married/committed to one partner, that's years and years with just the one.
The way I see the whole disclosure thing... If a man asks, I can give him details, I don't mind talking about it. But if he really seems to be like...grilling me...I might see that as a red flag. The one partner I had who did, seemed to want details so that he could somehow twist and weaponize them against me later. Like later he would state some bit of my story but get something wrong about it, and I'd correct him because I'm thinking he just remembered it wrong, and he'd be like, "aha! That's not what you said! You lied!" and I'd be like, "I assure you I did not, you're just remembering this detail incorrectly" and we'd fight about it. Like he was trying to set me up for some weird "gotcha" crap all the time, it was like dealing with an internet troll but in real life. Sheesh. Don't nobody need that kind of aggravation.
But I do feel that a guy I'm in early dating stages with should have a general idea that I've got a history, because if it would affect his "informed consent" then I'm not trying to hold back info important to his ability to make choices that are right for him.
Originally Posted by moongirl00: I have disclosed and they usually get upset. I just figured I was being honest and if he loves me he'll accept it. I don't give details. Though one guy used to obsessively grill me for details and then just get mad when I refused to talk about it.
My number is about 40 which sounds high but imo is not even that high. I have a friend who went out partying every weekend and almost always hooked up. I'd guess her number to be in the 100s. And thats not uncommon among clubbing types.
Most of my boyfriends had numbers on the low side. Like under 10. One boyfriend had only been with 2 people before me.
Now that I realize they get upset by this I will probably refuse to discuss it. I would be surprised if the topic doesn't come up though during the "assess for deal breakers" talks.
I will try this from now on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
I'm closer to your count than to your friend's, Moongirl. But the thing is as I've said, my "promiscuity" was packed into two distinct and brief periods of my life. I went for it with gusto when I was available, but when I'm married/committed to one partner, that's years and years with just the one.
The way I see the whole disclosure thing... If a man asks, I can give him details, I don't mind talking about it. But if he really seems to be like...grilling me...I might see that as a red flag. The one partner I had who did, seemed to want details so that he could somehow twist and weaponize them against me later. Like later he would state some bit of my story but get something wrong about it, and I'd correct him because I'm thinking he just remembered it wrong, and he'd be like, "aha! That's not what you said! You lied!" and I'd be like, "I assure you I did not, you're just remembering this detail incorrectly" and we'd fight about it. Like he was trying to set me up for some weird "gotcha" crap all the time, it was like dealing with an internet troll but in real life. Sheesh. Don't nobody need that kind of aggravation.
But I do feel that a guy I'm in early dating stages with should have a general idea that I've got a history, because if it would affect his "informed consent" then I'm not trying to hold back info important to his ability to make choices that are right for him.
Moongirl...you seem to shoot yourself in the foot. I feel no need to hide nor to advertise my sexual history. I find nothing particularly of note. So I would never feel the need to bring up my number or talk specifically about sex and a particular person...ever. Sure, general things I like...not that I like them because I was with such and such and we did it every ____.
So why do you bring up the topic yourself? You can say you need to know if men will reject your "history", and therefore "you"....but I think you are self-sabotaging because of numerous other comments where you go from one extreme to another about being traditional and being sex-positive and feeling good about sex and then being "made" to feel trashy by men. And yet you seem surprised and "now" you realize they get upset? I honestly wonder sometimes if you have dissociative personality disorder.
Or maybe you DO have a real issue getting with relatively inexperienced men - and wanting to shock them? And getting them to reject you over your "nasty" behavior? Get with some guys who've had a hundred partners - YOU ask THEM up front - they won't care about your 40 but I would not even disclose. There is nothing about your number that they need to know.
And Sonic - I see very little reason to self-disclose. Maybe if you see yourself as totally non-vanilla and that you'll always be doing non-vanilla stuff with someone other than your current partner. 90% of people don't fall into that category. Why does someone have to know when I had my first partner and what we did and then at age blah blah I did this with this many people? And I would NEVER do that unless they gave me the benefit of JUST as much detail. It would have to be completely MUTUAL for me to even consider it and they'd need to give me very clear reasons why THEY felt they needed to share and why I should also share. I'll take a series of tests for STIs to show them I'm safe and use condoms until they are satisfied, but I will not tell them about all my partners.
BTW - I don't hear any men on here or anywhere else who talk to THEIR own partners about what THEY have done. It's very much a one-way street - and that is completely wrong.
Originally Posted by moongirl00: I have disclosed and they usually get upset. I just figured I was being honest and if he loves me he'll accept it. I don't give details. Though one guy used to obsessively grill me for details and then just get mad when I refused to talk about it.
My number is about 40 which sounds high but imo is not even that high. I have a friend who went out partying every weekend and almost always hooked up. I'd guess her number to be in the 100s. And thats not uncommon among clubbing types.
Most of my boyfriends had numbers on the low side. Like under 10. One boyfriend had only been with 2 people before me.
Now that I realize they get upset by this I will probably refuse to discuss it. I would be surprised if the topic doesn't come up though during the "assess for deal breakers" talks.
I will try this from now on.
Moongirl...you seem to shoot yourself in the foot. I feel no need to hide nor to advertise my sexual history. I find nothing particularly of note. So I would never feel the need to bring up my number or talk specifically about sex and a particular person...ever. Sure, general things I like...not that I like them because I was with such and such and we did it every ____.
So why do you bring up the topic yourself? You can say you need to know if men will reject your "history", and therefore "you"....but I think you are self-sabotaging because of numerous other comments where you go from one extreme to another about being traditional and being sex-positive and feeling good about sex and then being "made" to feel trashy by men. And yet you seem surprised and "now" you realize they get upset? I honestly wonder sometimes if you have dissociative personality disorder.
Or maybe you DO have a real issue getting with relatively inexperienced men - and wanting to shock them? And getting them to reject you over your "nasty" behavior? Get with some guys who've had a hundred partners - YOU ask THEM up front - they won't care about your 40 but I would not even disclose. There is nothing about your number that they need to know.
And Sonic - I see very little reason to self-disclose. Maybe if you see yourself as totally non-vanilla and that you'll always be doing non-vanilla stuff with someone other than your current partner. 90% of people don't fall into that category. Why does someone have to know when I had my first partner and what we did and then at age blah blah I did this with this many people? And I would NEVER do that unless they gave me the benefit of JUST as much detail. It would have to be completely MUTUAL for me to even consider it and they'd need to give me very clear reasons why THEY felt they needed to share and why I should also share. I'll take a series of tests for STIs to show them I'm safe and use condoms until they are satisfied, but I will not tell them about all my partners.
BTW - I don't hear any men on here or anywhere else who talk to THEIR own partners about what THEY have done. It's very much a one-way street - and that is completely wrong.
Well... I don't talk to my partner about the past because, frankly, it doesn't mean anything to me. I live for the 'here and now' and what I have done prior to the 'here and now' has no relevance. Same with her - I don't ask her about it and I don't expect her to go there with me. And... she hasn't asked me... we are on the same page.
So... no 'one-way street' in *our* relationship, thank you very much indeed.
Well... I don't talk to my partner about the past because, frankly, it doesn't mean anything to me. I live for the 'here and now' and what I have done prior to the 'here and now' has no relevance. Same with her - I don't ask her about it and I don't expect her to go there with me. And... she hasn't asked me... we are on the same page.
So... no 'one-way street' in *our* relationship, thank you very much indeed.
I am very glad to hear it!
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So when I hear that talk from someone, there's a strong possibility that they are engaging in a very old 'tactic' - projection.
I’m going to keep working at everything.
