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I know someone whose ex is always dragging him into court and/or having him locked up for child support, yet hasn't let him see their son for over 3 years (the kid's turning 5.) I think it's very interesting (and grossly unfair) that non-custodial parents have to comply with a court order to pay support or get locked up, but custodial parents can ignore a court order saying the NC parent gets visitation and nothing happens to them.
Any thoughts or personal stories about this subject? I'm sure this thing happens a lot.
Is this in NJ? If so, what county?
Does he have a cell phone? If so, he should print out every bill to show he's calling the kids. I also suggest for him to keep a small notebook, can be a pocket sized one, every time he calls, he should note when and what time and whether they picked the phone up, if he left a message and if anyone called him back.
He should also start requesting visitation in writing. I like email as he can print it out when he goes to court to prove she's answering him (assuming she does & says no) or he can send a letter, certified mail.
He needs to be able to prove he has no contact with the kids.
Judges usually frown on this.
I also know people who pay and STILL don't get to see their kids because of a vindictive ex. People CAN just want to be an a**hole and use their kids as weapons, you know.
Does someone owe YOU child support? Sure sounds like it by the stance you're taking here.
No, I do court orders for a living. I can tell you right now that those court orders do not give a darn about how you *feel*. Yes, people use their children as weapons.They do it when they are married and when they are divorced and even if they aren't even the biological parents. However, when you don't pay child support then you don't win visitation. Sorry about your luck.
Child support and visitation are two separate issues and are dealt with in the courts separately. If the father has court ordered visitation, then he needs to file a court order for contempt against the mother. He needs to show up for his court ordered visitation EVERY time and call the police and file a report of her non-compliance. I do not buy "the ex won't let me see my kids" excuse. Sorry.
I suspect the court will be unhappy he's not paying support which is why he likely hasn't taken that step but he should at least be documenting the refusals by having the police show up and filing reports. Sometimes the police will try to convince the mom to let the dad take the kids for his visitation time but usually they won't force her.
Location: Pelion, South Carolina/orig. from Cape May, NJ
1,113 posts, read 3,493,670 times
Reputation: 1176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roselvr
Is this in NJ? If so, what county?
Does he have a cell phone? If so, he should print out every bill to show he's calling the kids. I also suggest for him to keep a small notebook, can be a pocket sized one, every time he calls, he should note when and what time and whether they picked the phone up, if he left a message and if anyone called him back.
He should also start requesting visitation in writing. I like email as he can print it out when he goes to court to prove she's answering him (assuming she does & says no) or he can send a letter, certified mail.
He needs to be able to prove he has no contact with the kids.
Judges usually frown on this.
It's in Cape May County, the most f***ed up court system you'll ever deal with. She lives there, he lives in Salem County.
My friend did the same thing you're suggesting. But you know what? The courts don't care about pay stubs, paperwork, if you've got other kids to support, or if you've got two broken arms and can't work-all they care about is money, money, money, and so do a lot of CP's out there.
She had to bring all her paystubs to court and she's a cashier at Lowe's. Her ex is a store manager and owns his own landscaping business. Did the court ask to see HIS paystubs?? Hell no. Meanwhile she's trying to feed two other kids, driving a 14-year old POS while he's sporting an Excursion with a built-in video system and tinted windows. My friend hasn't been able to see her daughter for 6 years (her daughter is 11) because her ex is pissed because she dumped him. He admitted that to a mutual friend.
I'm not saying people shouldn't support their kids, but courts should take things into account, such as having other children to support, having your wages lowered (the economy IS bad right now but you'd think judges and court personnel are ignorant of that fact), and the CP's income. Something's wrong when the CP is making 80 G's a year and he's dogging his ex for money, while she's living below the poverty level.
Visitation and child support - two totally separate issues.
First, if a person isn't paying their child support, that reflects on their character. This makes it much more difficult for them to go to court and explain their case for visitation that isn't happening. Also, many parents who don't pay their child support are going to avoid the courts in regards to their pleas for visitation for the obvious.
If a person is planning on fleeing their state and moving in order to avoid paying child support, one would have to wonder how important seeing their kids is to them. A judge will agree with that statement 100% of the time.
I suggest your friend catch up on all his child support and then go to court to see his kids. An ex has no rights to prevent visitation to a "fit parent". A judge will agree to that as well.
Child support and visitation are two separate issues and are dealt with in the courts separately. If the father has court ordered visitation, then he needs to file a court order for contempt against the mother. He needs to show up for his court ordered visitation EVERY time and call the police and file a report of her non-compliance. I do not buy "the ex won't let me see my kids" excuse. Sorry.
I suspect the court will be unhappy he's not paying support which is why he likely hasn't taken that step but he should at least be documenting the refusals by having the police show up and filing reports. Sometimes the police will try to convince the mom to let the dad take the kids for his visitation time but usually they won't force her.
Not always, dependent on the state. For instance, divorce is held in one court because of property and children and support is held in family court. It is dependent on the state.
My fave part is that when one doesn't pay child support there is the whole, it is now a federal offense. Yep.
Location: Pelion, South Carolina/orig. from Cape May, NJ
1,113 posts, read 3,493,670 times
Reputation: 1176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium
No, I do court orders for a living. I can tell you right now that those court orders do not give a darn about how you *feel*. Yes, people use their children as weapons.They do it when they are married and when they are divorced and even if they aren't even the biological parents. However, when you don't pay child support then you don't win visitation. Sorry about your luck.
You do court orders for a living? Okay, then I have a couple of questions...
We're well aware courts don't care about how you *feel*. Oh well. My question is are courts supposed to take into consideration when someone's work hours are cut, they have other children to support, bills, etc. when figuring out the CS amount? Because the court my friend is dealing with isn't giving any of that any consideration when he filed to have his support lowered. They also have him down as making full-time wages and he's not even making part-time wages right now. He took his paystubs in court to show this and they wouldn't even look at them. The economy's in bad shape but you'd think the judges don't watch or read the news by the way they treat people. Why do they tell you to bring in your last 4 paystubs if they won't even look at them?
Question #2: Does my friend need to hire a lawyer? Obviously pro-se motions get no respect
No, I do court orders for a living. I can tell you right now that those court orders do not give a darn about how you *feel*. Yes, people use their children as weapons.They do it when they are married and when they are divorced and even if they aren't even the biological parents. However, when you don't pay child support then you don't win visitation. Sorry about your luck.
In NJ, visitation and support are two different things and visitation doesn't stop due to non payment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jersgrl1969
It's in Cape May County, the most f***ed up court system you'll ever deal with. She lives there, he lives in Salem County.
My friend did the same thing you're suggesting. But you know what? The courts don't care about pay stubs, paperwork, if you've got other kids to support, or if you've got two broken arms and can't work-all they care about is money, money, money, and so do a lot of CP's out there.
She had to bring all her paystubs to court and she's a cashier at Lowe's. Her ex is a store manager and owns his own landscaping business. Did the court ask to see HIS paystubs?? Hell no. Meanwhile she's trying to feed two other kids, driving a 14-year old POS while he's sporting an Excursion with a built-in video system and tinted windows. My friend hasn't been able to see her daughter for 6 years (her daughter is 11) because her ex is pissed because she dumped him. He admitted that to a mutual friend.
I'm not saying people shouldn't support their kids, but courts should take things into account, such as having other children to support, having your wages lowered (the economy IS bad right now but you'd think judges and court personnel are ignorant of that fact), and the CP's income. Something's wrong when the CP is making 80 G's a year and he's dogging his ex for money, while she's living below the poverty level.
There are 2 child support posts on page 1 of the NJ forum, check them out. I left a bunch of links.
Are we talking about a man or woman not being able to see their child? Reading what you're saying, I'm not sure- not that it matters - but they need to check out the links I left to get a hearing where they both fill in the worksheet.
Has she written down phone calls and requested to see the kid(s)?
From what you are saying, she needs a review and should get one asap. Has her salary gone down since the divorce with his going up?
Yes on the attorney unless they know what they are doing. They can also hire a paralegal to help them with paperwork.
You do court orders for a living? Okay, then I have a couple of questions...
We're well aware courts don't care about how you *feel*. Oh well. My question is are courts supposed to take into consideration when someone's work hours are cut, they have other children to support, bills, etc. when figuring out the CS amount? Because the court my friend is dealing with isn't giving any of that any consideration when he filed to have his support lowered. They also have him down as making full-time wages and he's not even making part-time wages right now. He took his paystubs in court to show this and they wouldn't even look at them. The economy's in bad shape but you'd think the judges don't watch or read the news by the way they treat people. Why do they tell you to bring in your last 4 paystubs if they won't even look at them?
Question #2: Does my friend need to hire a lawyer? Obviously pro-se motions get no respect
Yes, he needs a lawyer. Like I said, run a search on father's rights and if he is on the up and up he can find some answers and get some help. They have lawyers that specialize in this. He wants that, he just doesn't know it yet. There are judges that do NOT want people to represent themselves. For a good reason. The majority of judges do not operate willy nilly, they are limited to the laws. Therefore, you have to change the laws.
This YOU need to get. I'm not trying to be harsh to hurt your feelings, you need to get real objective not subjective. There is a reason that the law does not give a damn about how you feel, or what you think of the other person. You need to find the 99 reasons it is that way. People feel jacked because they don't get the law. You, stating that it is not you personally, have an advantage. You have the capacity to figure it out and to still offer support.
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