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I am waiting for daylight so that we can deliver papers to the courts requesting a psych work up based on her abusive behavior. We may be able to avoid a custody battle all together.
If you are looking for an amicable split, are you sure this is the best way to go?
My Dad tried to take my Mom to court to prove she was an unfit Mother because she's a lesbian. I never have and never will forgive him for it.
Be very careful - it sounds like she is behaving badly, but you did too. If my husband cheated on me and then told me he was leaving me I just don't know what I would do.
This is a two way street.
My parents managed to pull their relationship back together in terms of being able to be civil to one another - took a huge act of forgiveness on
my Mom's part. Not many people would be capeable of that, but she knew that ultimatey THAT was what was best for me. To have two parents who could get along.
Be very careful with what you are doing and what is motivating yout o do it. If you were purer than the driven snow in all this then that's one thing, but your copy book is well and truely blotted also. The court will see that.
If you really have the best interests of your kids at heart, I would be as pleasant but as firm with her as you can. Move out and agree to joint custody. Always be polite and firm to her even if she is not polite to you. Be the better person.
Yes I do want to open the "can of worms" and yes the records do show progress. My counselor has documented the steps I have made and the progression along the way. Yes this does say I have been making progress. As far as no getting them out sooner, if this is the worst that can be said ok fine. I am guilty of trying to make a marriage work and trying to get my kids mother help. I don't think I am going to need to much of a defense on that front.
IDK about you and your husband Ivory, but I'M NOT HIM. See you keep coming at me like we are in the same situation. If this is true then you really need help. If you insist on drawing the connection you really need to look in the mirror. My wife is not someone you want to be aligned with. Trying to say we are in the same boat means that you are abusive. With the amount of times you keep coming at me I have to assume you are just like her. Please go see someone before you do anymore damage to your kids or hubs.
Saying your lawyer would have eaten me for lunch is about asinine. You don't know anything about her or her actions you only know that you try to connect me to your hubby. I swear you are one rude nasty lady.
Why would you continue to try and grief me or my situation?
What do you get out of it other than causing me pain?
You say all this in the name of good luck. but then add we would have eaten you for lunch. I swear you are a really sad angry person that needs to go see someone.
Last edited by Boneheaded; 04-27-2009 at 03:28 PM..
If you are looking for an amicable split, are you sure this is the best way to go?
My Dad tried to take my Mom to court to prove she was an unfit Mother because she's a lesbian. I never have and never will forgive him for it.
Be very careful - it sounds like she is behaving badly, but you did too. If my husband cheated on me and then told me he was leaving me I just don't know what I would do.
This is a two way street.
My parents managed to pull their relationship back together in terms of being able to be civil to one another - took a huge act of forgiveness on
my Mom's part. Not many people would be capeable of that, but she knew that ultimatey THAT was what was best for me. To have two parents who could get along.
Be very careful with what you are doing and what is motivating yout o do it. If you were purer than the driven snow in all this then that's one thing, but your copy book is well and truely blotted also. The court will see that.
If you really have the best interests of your kids at heart, I would be as pleasant but as firm with her as you can. Move out and agree to joint custody. Always be polite and firm to her even if she is not polite to you. Be the better person.
Her abusive behavior did not begin after the affair but years before it. Joint custody is not even an option. As I work from home they have not been alone with her more than a few times a month in many years. My mother has spent more time alone with our kids than my wife has.
I really don't want to have to make it nasty as proving her unfit. I am hoping she will back down once the results are given to ours attorneys.
I'm not trying to cause pain. I'm trying to prevent it. If you open this can of worms, everything you ever discussed in counseling can be brought into the custody battle. One question you will be called to answer is who your children were with when you were with your mistress. I hope it wasn't your wife for your sake. You will also be called to explain why you've waited until now to do something about the situation. Have your answers ready.
BH, Unforunately, being in counseling doesn't tell the court you've made progress. It tells them you have issues bad enough to be in counseling. The court will decide about the issues when the records are opened and they will be if you insist on a psych eval for her.
It is absolutely a credit to him. It tells them that he acknowledged there was a problem and wanted to resolve it. If it was voluntary, absolutely.
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He tried to get me in for psych eval. All that happened is HIS counseling records were opened and we were scheduled for family evaluations. Once his records were open, everything he ever talked about in counseling became subject to the custody proceedings.
BH is aware of that.
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How are you going to defend yourself when the court asks why you didn't get them out of the situation? That does not make you look like a candidate for father of the year.
That doesn't not make him a bad father either. How did you defend yourself to the court for making the decision to stay with an alcoholic?
You managed to keep them, didn't you?
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Parents are expected to react the first time they see their child being abused. Not months or years later during a divorce hearing. They assumed that either A) He was a lousy parent who failed to get his child out of an abusive situation or B) he was lying because we were getting divorced and he just wanted to sling mud.
Or the abuse wasn't considered such or severe enough to remove the child from the home.
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Are you sure you want to demand a psych evaluation and open this can of worms?
That was your husband, not BH.
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Why not just take her up on her offer to trade assets for custody? If she's willing to give you the kids for $$, take it.
She is trying to sell him his own kids, wants half of their trust as well, using the mindf*ck that the courts will side with her because she is a woman as a way to get him to buckle. There is a HUGE problem with this.
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Then the kids don't have to go through court ordered evaluations (they will evaluate you with your kids) and they don't have to see dad drag mom through the mud or, vice versa, whichever the case turns out to be but it sounds like one will happen if not both.
Sometimes it is worth it, in the long run, to go through the motions. He would not be doing those kids any favors by not addressing her emotional/mental instability. According to him, she has not been much of a parent either. And she's not really interested in their well being as much as she is how much she stands to get out of this.
He has already asserted that he doesn't disparage her, but you won't acknowledge that. No surprise there.
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You saying she needs counseling doesn't prove she does. My husband tried that too. Unless you have a PhD in psychology, they're not likely to listen to your diagnosis.
How do you prove someone needs counseling? That's the purpose of the psych eval, isn't it?
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My husband, like you, thought he'd dealt with his issues. He thought he'd made progress.
Your husband and BH are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. You cannot attest to the progress BH has or has not made.
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The court has seen this before. They're not going to take your word for it.
This where a person petitions for the opportunity to provide proof.
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Are your actions the actions of a father who believes his children have been living in an abusive situation? They're going to want to know what youv'e done to protect your kids. Why you stayed this long. Why the "abuse" is only now being brought up now that you're getting divorced.
The abuse has been brought up with his wife and his counselor. These are steps people take to avoid divorce. It is only being brought up in court now because he wasn't getting a divorce before.
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The court will forgive a parent for making the wrong decision because they beleived it was right but they don't forgive failing to protect your kids when you saw them in an abusive situation. Inmy case, I believed staying was better for my kids. I didn't realize how his daily drinking (he drank 3-6 beers a day) affected them. I turned out to be wrong in my decision to stay but the court still saw me as a mother who did what she believed was best.
How can you attest to what BH thought was best?
Regarless, 3-6 drinks a day, by your standards (and others as well), would be full blown alcoholism. I don't buy, for one second, that YOU didn't realize how his drinking would have affected them. There would be no way you could have believed that was best thing for your kids. You have convinced a judge of this, good job.
This should be a cakewalk for BH, if your experience is any indication.
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He, OTOH, did not come across as looking like a parent who did what they beleived was best. He came across as an angry soon to be ex who wanted to sling mud.
Everything you have ignored clearly shows who the angry stbx is wanting to sling mud.
Based on your own assertions, you should be somewhat optimistic about BH's chances. But that wouldn't be convenient would it?
It is absolutely a credit to him. It tells them that he acknowledged there was a problem and wanted to resolve it. If it was voluntary, absolutely.
BH is aware of that.
That doesn't not make him a bad father either. How did you defend yourself to the court for making the decision to stay with an alcoholic?
You managed to keep them, didn't you?
Or the abuse wasn't considered such or severe enough to remove the child from the home.
That was your husband, not BH.
She is trying to sell him his own kids, wants half of their trust as well, using the mindf*ck that the courts will side with her because she is a woman as a way to get him to buckle. There is a HUGE problem with this.
Sometimes it is worth it, in the long run, to go through the motions. He would not be doing those kids any favors by not addressing her emotional/mental instability. According to him, she has not been much of a parent either. And she's not really interested in their well being as much as she is how much she stands to get out of this.
He has already asserted that he doesn't disparage her, but you won't acknowledge that. No surprise there.
How do you prove someone needs counseling? That's the purpose of the psych eval, isn't it?
Your husband and BH are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. You cannot attest to the progress BH has or has not made.
This where a person petitions for the opportunity to provide proof.
The abuse has been brought up with his wife and his counselor. These are steps people take to avoid divorce. It is only being brought up in court now because he wasn't getting a divorce before.
How can you attest to what BH thought was best?
Regarless, 3-6 drinks a day, by your standards (and others as well), would be full blown alcoholism. I don't buy, for one second, that YOU didn't realize how his drinking would have affected them. There would be no way you could have believed that was best thing for your kids. You have convinced a judge of this, good job.
This should be a cakewalk for BH, if your experience is any indication.
Everything you have ignored clearly shows who the angry stbx is wanting to sling mud.
Based on your own assertions, you should be somewhat optimistic about BH's chances. But that wouldn't be convenient would it?
Actually, no. To the court, counseling is simply proof you had issues that required counseling. My huband thought the same thing.
How do you prove someone else needs counseling? In an abuse case, by first acting like a parent who sees your children in an abuse situation and getting them out of the abuse situation. Then you ask the court to determine custody. Here they do a family evaluation. They evaluate both parents with the children to see if there is reason to suspect any abuse. The court will base their decision off of that. It's really the kids who have to be evaluated to determine if abuse has happened and if it has affected them. Unfortunately, it's not unusual for divorcing parties to decide a situation is abusive as a means of getting what they want in a divorce, so, no courts don't take your word for it. They'll want both parties evaluated because, often, the evaluation is just a ploy in the divorce and they don't take kindly to doing that.
Problem is, it's really not unusual for people in need of counseling to point fingers at others and tell them they need counseling. BTDT with my dh. I still don't need counseling. Only he knows that now. My case was different in that my husband only thought he'd dealt with his issues and was cured. His pointing fingers at me was to avoid pointing them at himself.
Funny, my father was in counseling for years and kept dragging us kids in. My husband has been through four counselors and kept insisting I needed counseling. As my mom used to say "The faults you see in others are your own".
If the abuse wasn't bad enough to remove the child from the home, it's also not bad enough to warrant taking custody away from that parent. It's either bad enough or it isn't. There's no it wasn't bad enough to leave before but now that we're getting divorced it's so bad I should get custody. This one I know firsthand with my husband's drinking. You can't act one way and speak another. My decision to stay in spite of him drinking, at least, three beers a day, was counted against me and, because of it, I had an uphill battle. What worked in my favor was I wasn't the one who left. I presented to the court what I believed at the time. The fact I believed it in error was forgiven because I acted on my beliefs.
The court wants to see that you acted in a manner you believed was best for your children. I believed that my presence in the household somehow protected my kids (unfortunately, that belief was in error) and that a joint custody arrangement (typical around here) would be bad for my kids because they would have been with their father half the time with no other adult to intercede on their behalf, which was true so I presented to the court as a mother who was, truely, concerned about her kids. I stayed because I believed it was better for them than leaving. I did what I believed to be best for my kids, even if I was wrong the fact I beleived it showed I had my children's best interest at heart. Had I been the one to leave, I wouldn't have had a leg to stand on here because then it presents as it wasn't bad enough to warrant getting the kids out but now I'm sick of it and want out of the marriage so I'll use it against him in court for custody, which is, exactly how his accusations against me were seen.
The court will look at your actions more than your words. If your actions say the situation wasn't that bad, they won't believe your words when you say so. My lawyer had to push this issue from second one and never let up to get what we did and then we only got it because my actions were that of a mother who believed she was doing what was right for her kids. I didn't decide to use it against him only after I decided to divorce him.
BH has to attest to what he thought was best and explain his actions in light of what he thought was best. I hope he never left the kids with her to be with his mistress. That will kill his argument. If she's safe enough to leave the kids with to go with his mistress, she's safe enough to leave the kids with, period.
One thing my husband's lawyer tried to use against me was that he drove hte kids to school in the morning. They argued if he could be trusted to do that then he should be trusted to have them any amount of time. It was an up hill battle to convince the court that he didn't drink in the morning. Drinking started after work. It was the after work time I was worried about. I was amazed that I had to defend leaving for work becasue we needed my job and leaving him with the kids for half an hour in the morning when he didn't have a habit of drinking in the morning (of course now I know that when you're a daily drinking you're never really sober so I know that was wrong but at the time I didn't). I can't imagine trying to explain I left them with him to go see my affair partner.
I'm simply warning that this can of worms may get very ugly before it's done and it may not work out as he plans. It could backfire if some things are there like him leaving the kids with her when he was with his mistress. If he answered this, I didn't read his answer. I hope this is not the case. That's a tough one to explain if it is.
You keep assuming I left them with my wife to go be with the mistress. You are wrong!
The courts there are jacked in comparison to Texas if the records from counseling showing a positive progression don't mean anything. Your argument that your husband should not be alone with them is exactly the same argument I have.
In fact tonight I was invited to go have a drink and had to say no thanks. I would love to go but don't think it is in the best interest of the kids to be alone with the soon to be ex.
Her abusive behavior did not begin after the affair but years before it. Joint custody is not even an option. As I work from home they have not been alone with her more than a few times a month in many years. My mother has spent more time alone with our kids than my wife has.
I really don't want to have to make it nasty as proving her unfit. I am hoping she will back down once the results are given to ours attorneys.
I must have missed a lot of the stuff about her abusive behavior. I guess I'm just saying to try and keep it as civil as you can - kids are as sharp as a whip and pick up on everything. Telling a court their Mom is crazy is probably not going to endear them to you, and it is certainly going to **** her off even more. How are you going to have an ok relationship with someone you cheated on, left and are now calling abusive?
I haven't read the posts about her trying to sell you your own children - that sounds really unbelieveable - is joint custody not an option? I'll have to try and find those posts so I can get up to date. She may just be trying to hurt you as much as possible for what you have done to her?
Such a shame that both your behaviours are going to affect your kids in this way. Really sad story.
I have been trying to get her help for depression for a long time. Her abusive behavior is emotional and verbal mostly directed towards me. The passive abuse of having a mother there and not active in their life is all the kids have experienced directly. Indirectly they have witnessed her behavior towards me.
I don't want to have to take it to a court battle; however I truly feel I would be neglectful to leave them in her sole care in a joint custody situation. I was going to let her have custody in an attempt to call her bluff and let her say she couldn't do it anymore. The change in heart came after witnessing her increased craziness after the legal separation was eminent.
Bottom line this is a choice between evils. There is no good answer or easy path.
I have been trying to get her help for depression for a long time. Her abusive behavior is emotional and verbal mostly directed towards me. The passive abuse of having a mother there and not active in their life is all the kids have experienced directly. Indirectly they have witnessed her behavior towards me.
I don't want to have to take it to a court battle; however I truly feel I would be neglectful to leave them in her sole care in a joint custody situation. I was going to let her have custody in an attempt to call her bluff and let her say she couldn't do it anymore. The change in heart came after witnessing her increased craziness after the legal separation was eminent.
Bottom line this is a choice between evils. There is no good answer or easy path.
Unfortunately she may fight for custody simply based on the child support you will have to pay her should she keep the kids rather then because she actually WANTS the kids.
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She is trying to sell him his own kids, wants half of their trust as well, using the mindf*ck that the courts will side with her because she is a woman as a way to get him to buckle. There is a HUGE problem with this. 
