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Actually, studies that were intended to prove that courts are biased against men showed the opposite -- that where the father actually sues for custody with the intention of obtaining it (and not merely for litigation leverage), he is more likely than the mother to get it.
Do you personally know a lot of men who actually want custody in a divorce? Not "joint" custody, where the man gets to make the decisions but not to change the diapers, but actual physical custody?
Alimony is increasingly rare, at least where I practice. It is mostly relegated to cases of severe economic disparity between the parties. Do you know many couples like that?
This is still much like the 1 in 3 that take the DNA test debate. I think in most reasonable people's minds the woman should have primary custody in most cases, as the "mothering instinct" is not something that was simply wished into existence. As a general rule, women are more nurturing and have overall better patience with children, and deal with the stresses of that better overall. This is fairly common knowledge.
That said, not many men even in bitter divorces file for custody unless there are some SERIOUS doubts in their minds as to the stability of the home or person. So again, it's more a case of being more successful in filing in those cases because there are usually major reasons behind it, in many cases obvious, such as drug use.
And I do know of 2 friends of mine who wish full custody. In their own cases however proving the mother is not competent to be the primary caregiver is very difficult, even though the accusation of abuse by the male (since this is not a criminal case) brings in supervised visits at the judge's discretion unless he can prove otherwise. The one more from the bitterness and rather overall nasty disposition of the woman in question IMO, rather than anything truly substantial, the other however, she has a history of mental issues.
Last edited by Waynec613; 07-15-2009 at 02:52 PM..
Basically Women will only put up with Bull sh** for a LIMITED amount of time.....Men will either continue with thier Bull sh** like they are actually getting away with it. Or they are content and probably feel like they are having thier cake and eating it too. If the woman is the one doing wrong she'll sooner or later figure that she can do the same thing and not have the trouble that is associated with having the husband around. I don't get it....My EX actually wanted to split the house. He wanted his room and then my Room and to date other people all while in the same house.----What an Idiot. It was sooooo obvious that we were over. DIVORCE. Why delay the inevitable? Yes, We opt for Closure and continuance of our lives. The longer we stay with the wrong the longer it keeps the right one away. I can go on on . I'm sre you had my point after the first few sentences.
How was the study able to determine the father's intent?
From follow-through. If the issue actually gets taken before a judge, the man is in a better position to win, statistically. If the bid for custody is made merely for leverage, however, it will either be traded away for something else before the hearing, or completely abandoned -- otherwise, the party who uses custody for leverage risks ending up with the worst of both worlds: no concessions and stuck with custody he didn't want in the first place.
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Originally Posted by rubber_factory
Most men I know didn't want the divorce to begin with.
That is irrelevant to the issue of custody. Also, simply not wanting a divorce doesn't mean actually contributing to a good marriage. A person can be an absolutely awful spouse, even abusive, and yet not want a divorce.
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Originally Posted by rubber_factory
I don't know how they felt about custody, I assume they have taken the view that the children are better off with the mother.
Well, then in that case, I don't see how courts can be accused of bias.
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Originally Posted by rubber_factory
It may be that they didn't want the children, I don't know.
Well, no one forced them at gun point, I presume.
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Originally Posted by rubber_factory
I have not observed many situations where the man "ran off" after divorce.
This is still much like the 1 in 3 that take the DNA test debate. I think in most reasonable people's minds the woman should have primary custody in most cases, as the "mothering instinct" is not something that was simply wished into existence. As a general rule, women are more nurturing and have overall better patience with children, and deal with the stresses of that better overall. This is fairly common knowledge.
That's not the basis for custody. The law is gender-neutral, and makes no assumption about which gender is supposedly more "nurturing". The person entitled to physical custody by default is the one who acted as the primary caretaker during the marriage. Period. If it's the father, then the father gets custody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waynec613
That said, not many men even in bitter divorces file for custody unless there are some SERIOUS doubts in their minds as to the stability of the home or person. So again, it's more a case of being more successful in filing in those cases because there are usually major reasons behind it, in many cases obvious, such as drug use.
Well, if the mothers in those cases are so horrible and so dangerous to their kids, kinda begs the question why the men don't file for divorce then -- right? Or it could be something that's a lot simpler -- like that a lot fewer men act as primary caretakers during the marriage than women. And again, this doesn't change the fact that, in contested custody cases, men are more likely than women to win. By the way, the same studies I was talking about also found that courts tend to give more weight to childcare when performed by men (e.g., a man scores more points for changing a diaper than does a woman) while also giving more weight to fault on the part of women than men (e.g., a woman proven to be a serial cheater is more likely to be found an unfit parent than a man who is a serial cheater).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waynec613
And I do know of 2 friends of mine who wish full custody. In their own cases however proving the mother is not competent to be the primary caregiver is very difficult, even though the accusation of abuse by the male (since this is not a criminal case) brings in supervised visits at the judge's discretion unless he can prove otherwise. The one more from the bitterness and rather overall nasty disposition of the woman in question IMO, rather than anything truly substantial, the other however, she has a history of mental issues.
But you've heard only one side of the story -- haven't you?
I know in my sister's case, he's in denial about it. He believes that they should only divorce if there's infidelity. I guess committing fraud doesn't count as a breach of trust in his world. (He forged my sister's name on multiple checks, among other things, without her knowledge.) He also put my sister 6 figures in debt to the point where she's losing her home and has to file for bankruptcy.
Much much more often than men? I read a stat that women file around 70 percent of the time!!! Why is this?
It didn't matter whose name was on our filing - we had already made our decision to divorce. I filed because we both used my lawyer, and I was paying for everything. There was no special reason for me instead of him, other than that.
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking
good gawd
The lottery deal was piddly compared to the overall picture.It was a rough deal....she could get into my union pension fund if I croaked,half of a lottery winning etc etc.
But what killed me was I lost 2 HD's ,a motorhome,house and ALL of the goodies,shop and a year old car, a late 1 ton 4x4 truck....ALL of that stuff was paid for and she also got every dime of a considerable bank account because she was smart enough to go get it and it was in both of our names....I hung out partying and didn't take care of business and business took care of me.
All I got was a new Dodge cummins 4x4 that I owed more on that it was worth,a 6 horse horse trailer and my dogs....she RENTED me my OWN house and I had to stand around after that first shower and air dry because she took the towels and EVERYTHING else but one glass,one fork and one plate.
Yeah...I was a smart on that first one.Next one got easier tho and so forth and so on
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