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How long do I hold onto this girl's number? I have a strong tendency to drunk dial, and I'd prefer to delete her number and save my embarassment. Even if she calls me in a few days or few weeks, I'd probably have lost interest due to thinking she's through with me anyways.
Ideas? Suggestions?
The number should already be gone.. a sure sign there is no cpr going to revive that one.. and even if she calls back this weekend.. its called second chance.. after first choice called out!
Great. Be who you want to be, and unapologetically. Sounds alpha to me. Why do you differentiate, in your narrative, between who you are and how you want others to see you? Sounds like you're giving unintentional credence to my surface vs. inside comment up the thread.
I didn't differentiate who I want to be and how I want to be seen, they go hand in hand. Your personality develops with life experiences and some inner soul searching on your part. But first you need a soul.
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It's also not a "front," but a real side of your personality. Surely you wouldn't disagree that some parts of the male personality are more attractive to females than others? Or that there are both appropriate and inappropriate times to display shades of your personal attributes, depending on the relationship stage?
There is a difference between exposing your personality in small doses, and pretending to be someone you are not just to get down their pants.
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I was just talking to a girl not more than an hour ago, for example, who told me she rejected a guy because he cried on their first date. Simply put, he shouldn't have showed that side of himself at that time. But if they were a couple in love, in a long-term relationship, he could probably cry within reason, and with some impunity.
I'm not saying every man needs to be Dr. Phil or Alan Alda. If a guy cried on a first date he shouldn't anticipate a call back from the girl any time soon. That goes beyond being sensitive, that's disturbing. There is also a big difference between being a pu$$y or overly mushy and being sensitive. In the latter stages of a relationship I would hope she understands you enough to know why you're crying, on a first date that's just too much, get help.
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Who's advocating playing games? Certain approaches work better than others with women, that is all. Women have defense mechanisms that get in the way of getting to know them. You must get around them first, then you can have a real relationship. Go try it yourself.
It is a game when you borrow different personas to in order to gain an advantage, instead of just being who you are. Of course, if who you are is no bargain to begin with, I guess I can understand why you would resort to those tactics. Being a nice guy on the inside while being the lady killer on the outside is geekish. Women and men's defense mechanism's are there for a reason. If you are trying too hard to crack them, a REAL woman or man will see right through you. It would behoove you to learn the difference between a woman and a girl. Try it myself? I've never had trouble getting a first date, second date, or developing a relationship, and it wasn't because I was reading advice out of Maxim magazine.
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Well, I never said that that's what I want, just that you should go sexual early, and that with some caveats--too many to list here, unless I'm getting paid for writing a book. Basically, you don't want to be murky, and you don't want to be put "in the friend zone." And, I might add, that if a woman likes you, she'll sleep with you.
Go sexual early...well if that's what your priorities are, then yes, continue to do what works best for you. Being put in the friend zone is every bit a deal breaker as being cast as a playboy or player. Both are the kiss of death. It goes back to what I said, find some balance, and be yourself. I find that folks who try to be something they are not, do so out of fear and insecurity. They try so hard to overcome the fear of rejection or the fear that they may not spark any interest in a woman by being themselves, that they over compensate. They spend all their energy trying to "play" the girl with diversionary tactics. Works with the little girls and the bobble-heads in the clubs, doesn't work with a real woman. But some guys are scared of real women. Not me.
There is a difference between exposing your personality in small doses, and pretending to be someone you are not just to get down their pants.
I don't recall anybody here advocating pretending to be someone else. Maybe you should start a separate thread with such "sage" advice. It doesn't really apply here.
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It is a game when you borrow different personas to in order to gain an advantage, instead of just being who you are. Of course, if who you are is no bargain to begin with, I guess I can understand why you would resort to those tactics.
I understand you're having trouble with the conversation. You are not really responding to me, you're reacting to a caricature you've created in your own mind. I admire your heroic attempts at divergence, but it's better to stay in the moment, and the actual conversation. Just sayin'.
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Being a nice guy on the inside while being the lady killer on the outside is geekish.
I'll take your word for it. I'd Love to hear your stories about getting over your geekishness. I do love a good success story.
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Women and men's defense mechanism's are there for a reason. If you are trying too hard to crack them, a REAL woman or man will see right through you.
Which one are you again?
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It would behoove you to learn the difference between a woman and a girl. Try it myself? I've never had trouble getting a first date, second date, or developing a relationship, and it wasn't because I was reading advice out of Maxim magazine.
I thought that magazine went under years ago? Maybe you can share with the rest of the class what you learned reading it. I will say, though, I do hope that's not your only source for how to do better with women.
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But some guys are scared of real women. Not me.
I think you protest too much, but as you say, whatever works for you...
Women like clean and nice men until they feel comfortable that level and then they want MAN.
If you ever get the chance again...tease her a bit with cocky sarcasm. Don't need her at all.
play with her hair. if she's ready for the next level you'll know.
If not you'll know that too.
Because women have ulterior subconscious motives for giving men advice on women that has nothing to do with helping them get women. Think about what Mothers, and older women especially, tell guys about how to act around women. They say something like this:
"Be polite, respectful, a gentleman. Open doors for her, always pay for dinner, be pleasant and smile often. Take an interest in what she says and don't talk about yourself too much..."
Now, that's not all bad advice. Everything has its place, as they say. But let's put our thinking caps on for a minute. Are the types of guys who get the hottest chicks following that script? No.
Do women you know personally respond to "nice" guys? Not really. How about your Mother? Do you know enough about her past to say with certainty that she was attracted to your Father because of those qualities? In most cases, the answer is no.
The reality is that women are attracted to the alpha male. The problem is that the alpha male isn't always the most respectful, polite person in the room. So women suffer cognitive dissonance because they're attracted to one type of man, but want men to act like another type of man in theory. But if alpha acts like beta, then women lose attraction. Get the picture?
Additionally, the whole notion of asking women for advice on how to get other women is problematic, because females are in the business of culture building. Consequently, they can't resist the temptation to mold men into what they wish men and women would be like.
They want men to be "nice" guys, but they also want to be attracted to those guys and find them exciting. But until a woman is past her sexual prime, or unless she never had the option of dating the "bad boys" in the first place, she won't be interested in the provider-type.
My belief is that you can be a "nice" guy on the inside, where it counts. But on the surface, you're going to have to demonstrate some edge, and that means not apologizing for being a man, or supplicating to someone simply because you're attracted to them (good advice for both genders really.)
In closing, the only thing interesting about listening to a woman tell you how to get other women is in finding out how in touch she is with her own biology, and/or which one of the stock lines of advice that function as boiler plate relationship wisdom she's going to go with in that conversation.
Otherwise, the best advice is to test out what works, and what doesn't, and go from there. Don't take my word for it, go see for yourself. Try showing up to a date in a suit and tie with flowers, do the whole prim and proper routine, post back here with your findings.
I can tell you've been reading to David DeAngelo, the dating guru. It almost sounds like you're just repeating stuff he wrote.
Here's the thing in my experience. This stuff works if you want to be a pickup artist at bars and clubs.
However it does NOT work when you meet girls at school/classes, church, or clubs based on mutual hobbies/interest. These things are the places where being yourself truly works.
I can tell you've been reading to David DeAngelo, the dating guru. It almost sounds like you're just repeating stuff he wrote.
Here's the thing in my experience. This stuff works if you want to be a pickup artist at bars and clubs.
However it does NOT work when you meet girls at school/classes, church, or clubs based on mutual hobbies/interest. These things are the places where being yourself truly works.
I'm familiar with his stuff, but I can't say I've spent much time with it. His stuff is more cocky/funny; my stuff is original to me. Although, I assume others have figured out the same things. Also, I'm engaged to a church girl. Churches were one of my specialties. Yes, she knows I post here, and my user name as well.
For some reason, Killer really annoys me .. Venusian not so much. I think most of what Venusian says is pretty much spot on. He's the only pick-up artist minded person I've encountered (on line or otherwise) who seems to have some valuable things to say on male/female relations.
You're posts are well written with an abundance of great information. Kudos for that.
That approach, if pulled off correctly, is flawless if you're in the game. I just can't see it working if one is looking for a life partner.
They would see right threw the motives and if not? Then "the one" you are looking for isn't too bright.
In the end it's just one approach. Every man is equipped with their own arsenal, emotional and physical. The key is to pave your own way using what's been given to you.
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