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You are obviously referring to a specific person and specific situations. I think there will always be people that are not gracious, or terribly interested in being so, in their communication skills. In your place, I would try to be flexible and adjust my own style, as needed, to carry out a productive discussion with whomever. You cannot control how others communicate. Your grace will serve to benefit you in such situations.
Thanks, ChessieMom. Working on it. He is worth it, and in the long run I think I will benefit from expanding my own conversational styles.
Thank you, miu. I guess it just keeps coming back around to different strokes for different folks. I just wish the guy I have in mind wouldn't make accusations, as in "You are not listening to me." Ai yai yai... I will have to learn a different kind of conversational style in order to communicate with him. In so many other respects he is worth it.
I think that our preferred conversing style works best with those that are our intellectual equal. Anyone that feels inferior in terms or smarts or knowledge just isn't going to be comfortable with a back and forth banter style.
Also, those men from cultures that are male chauvinistic will also dislike conversing with us as equals, especially in a work situation.
About that older Hispanic male that flipped out at my job when I told him to put on gloves when putting ice in the guests' water glasses... he told my head manager that he had a problem with others (I'm sure that he meant fellow co-workers, especially females) speaking to him in an authoritarian way. Anyway, my head manager sided with me. She knows that I was only trying to be informative to a new worker on the floor. And with the swine flu scare, now more than ever, we have to be extra careful in working in a clean fashion. And she doesn't think that I have to act extra polite or submissive to him in order to keep his Hispanic male pride happy. Ironically, if he hadn't gotten all defensive and overreacted, the situation would have been kept between the two of us. But because he yelled at me, he looks like the crazy one and the entire staff knows what happened. And... he didn't show up for a scheduled early shift two days ago so he's getting written up for that infraction, I have a feeling that he's not going to last very long at our facility. Good riddance.
I think that our preferred conversing style works best with those that are our intellectual equal. Anyone that feels inferior in terms or smarts or knowledge just isn't going to be comfortable with a back and forth banter style.
Also, those men from cultures that are male chauvinistic will also dislike conversing with us as equals, especially in a work situation.
About that older Hispanic male that flipped out at my job when I told him to put on gloves when putting ice in the guests' water glasses... he told my head manager that he had a problem with others (I'm sure that he meant fellow co-workers, especially females) speaking to him in an authoritarian way. Anyway, my head manager sided with me. She knows that I was only trying to be informative to a new worker on the floor. And with the swine flu scare, now more than ever, we have to be extra careful in working in a clean fashion. And she doesn't think that I have to act extra polite or submissive to him in order to keep his Hispanic male pride happy. Ironically, if he hadn't gotten all defensive and overreacted, the situation would have been kept between the two of us. But because he yelled at me, he looks like the crazy one and the entire staff knows what happened. And... he didn't show up for a scheduled early shift two days ago so he's getting written up for that infraction, I have a feeling that he's not going to last very long at our facility. Good riddance.
Yepper. I can definitely see all of these dynamics at play here: cultural differences, gender roles, generation gap, lots of comments about me being supposedly overqaulified or highly educated (as if that's a problem), etc, etc, etc. Yet I am very down to earth and willing to find a happy medium.
Yepper. I can definitely see all of these dynamics at play here: cultural differences, gender roles, generation gap, lots of comments about me being supposedly overqaulified or highly educated (as if that's a problem), etc, etc, etc. Yet I am very down to earth and willing to find a happy medium.
Yep. Me too. I tried to descalate the situation, but he only got more upset. Going from telling me to mind my own business, then to shut up, and finally telling me that I talked too much.
This is why I've always known that I could only date an American born college educated male from a non macho culture background. I have to be myself. I have to be an equal in the relationship. I need to have my own career and friends. I could never give up my independence, freedoms and equality for a man.
I think my colleague does have a need to believe that his ideas are unique (even when they are not). Whereas most of my friends take pleasure in knowing that I have had many of the same ideas and experiences, he takes offense and thinks I am trying to compete with him.
Every one of us likes to think our ideas or perspectives are unique. Which is why I was so pleased to be disabused so genially when I happened upon Mr. Nock.
You may enjoy this by the late Rev. Edmund A. Opitz, a scholar and writer whom I was proud to call my friend, when we both lived in upstate New York, before we lost touch (sadly, from my perspective) upon his retirement circa 1994 (he died in 2006; I had not seen him for over that decade and was unaware of his death until a few months after the fact . . . and I have missed his charming friendship) . . .
Quote:
Bring together the shades of Erasmus, Shakespeare and Goethe and try to imagine what they would do. Play poker? Visit the Stock Exchange? Absurd! They would talk together. The precious converse of noble minds is the most truly human of all human relations, and demands at least as much artistry as Kreisler brought to the Mendelssohn Concerto. It need not be argued that Albert Jay Nock belongs on the same plane as the aforementioned to assert that he was of their spirit and that he did bring a considerable finesse to any discussion. Nock loved good talk; kindled by a responsive companion he was a brilliant conversationalist. He loved good food as well, but a meal was primarily a means of lubricating the flow of ideas. To the table he brought a mind trained and tuned to concert pitch, a mind well stocked with ideas gleaned from great literature and broadened by wide experience here and on the continent . . .
. . . In “The Decline of Conversation,” an essay in the collection entitled On Doing the Right Thing, Nock remarks that “The civilization of a country consists in the quality of life that is lived there, and this quality shows plainest in the things people choose to talk about when they talk together, and in the way they choose to talk about them.” In good conversation there is a symphonic quality, themes and variations, a blending and harmony of widely ranging minds which take delight in ideas for their own sake, minds able to play freely over and around ideas without prepossession and willing to follow an argument wherever it leads them. In a debate there’s a loser, but in a discussion there are only winners.
---From "The Genial Mr. Nock", Rev. Edmund A. Opitz, in The Freeman, September 1982. (It was this essay, plus having happened upon a small collection of Mr. Nock's choicest quotes, aphorisms, and extracts, Cogitations from Albert Jay Nock, that first provoked me to write Mr. Opitz and, thus, struck the friendship I still cherish and miss today.)
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Originally Posted by Nala8
I have heard of I and Thou. Charlotte Kasl refers to it quite a bit in her books on relationships. Your post makes me want to read it.
Do so, by all means! You may also want to hunt down Dr. Buber's The Knowledge of Man, in which he expostulates further on his dialogic philosophy and engages a learned contemporary in a conscious dialogue meant among other things to amplify his dialogic points.
You can also hunt down Albert Jay Nock's books via abebooks.com, a wonderful repository for finding out-of-print books in good condition. The Memoirs of a Superflous Man, in which he writes not so much his autobiography as a kind of memoir of thought---how he came to think as he did---is a remarkable starting point for discovering this singularly gifted essayist whose prose style is a lyric wonder even now, and whose suspicion of State power is an imperative contribution to what remains of our patrimony.
Yep. Me too. I tried to descalate the situation, but he only got more upset. Going from telling me to mind my own business, then to shut up, and finally telling me that I talked too much.
This is why I've always known that I could only date an American born college educated male from a non macho culture background. I have to be myself. I have to be an equal in the relationship. I need to have my own career and friends. I could never give up my independence, freedoms and equality for a man.
I would never give up my personal freedom and career, but of late I am determined to also have healthy loving relationships across the board. I believe that growing in terms of my communication styles or skills will help me on the job and at home. All my best relationships are founded on the basic principles of equality, respect, freedom, and love.
Your question is as murky as your profile picture. What's your point? Of course the ideal conversation style is one in where both parties are attentive and respectful in their listening, in addition to being entertaining and articulate--but not rambling nor dissembling--in their speaking.
My guess is that you are a woman--I'm guessing a foreigner?--who comes across too many American men as a bit pushy and overbearing. Just a hunch; no offense intended.
My guess is that you are a woman--I'm guessing a foreigner?--who comes across too many American men as a bit pushy and overbearing. Just a hunch; no offense intended.
Really? I would have guessed the opposite, that the problem was that she was an American female dealing with a man who was born in another country and from a more traditional culture.
Really? I would have guessed the opposite, that the problem was that she was an American female dealing with a man who was born in another country and from a more traditional culture.
Different people have different communication styles, and listening styles. Some people are very detailed, or very abstract in their speech. The listener may be lost in details- or simply lost, if the speaker isn't reaching them. So it's not a matter of intelligence in most cases; it's just that people send and receive info in different ways. A skilled speaker will recognize that and adjust his speech to reach his audience. A skilled listener will, despite their preferred way to receive feedback, try to discern what the speaker is saying.
Before writing someone off as rude, make sure you as the messenger has made the best attempts in your communication.
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