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It also makes reference to submissive meaning a slave or subservient person, only as a secondary to the primary definition. However, people are certainly free to use that definition as well.
Yea, if the goal is to antagonize lol. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. What's plain to you isn't so for me, and vice versa. That's how it goes.
I know I've only "heard" you online, but you know what? I like you. I like the way you think. I like the fact that you feel as if relationships are partnerships and that you should bounce ideas off of each other as partners. I really hope that you can find a woman who will work with you as a partner and that neither of you views the other as superior in any way. Find your equal. Know that you ARE equal....that you might approach decisions with very different points of view...and that it's okay for the other to have a "better idea" sometimes. Some people are on the spot thinkers and process information at break-neck speed....however, it's generally age and experience that is responsible for that skill. You, my new friend, are going to have an amazing marriage some day. Some lady is going to be really glad she found you!
Thank you so much beachmel...I like you too based on my online interaction of you. (but I have my doubts...You may be a hellion in real life..lol j/k )
No but seriously, those words are extremely flattering and they really do mean a lot coming from someone who has already succeeded at what I strive to accomplish in my relationships. I do try to treat others as my equals, because I wasnt raised to assume I was superior to anyone, and I hope I can be given the same consideration from my partner in return.. I can only hope that your prediction comes to fruition for me..lol... but I appreciate your kind words. Thank you very much beachmel.
I will be submissive to my wife when I find one. I will submit things to her and consider her input before making my decisions. It doesnt mean that she will command me nor walk all over me. It just means that I will BE WILLING to consider her opinions, and her feelings which will then work in tandem with my own. Not that she will be subordinate to my commands, or that I will be subordinate to hers, nor anything of the like. The WILLINGNESS is the distinguishing factor between the two. One is done under a person's own volition, the other is not. Now if a woman, or women, is/are unwilling to submit to me before making some of their decisions, then we are not for each other. But that is not due to my own arcane outlook of misogyny; but more likely, her own post-feminist outlook, which demands that she take a defensive posture at the idea that any man may ask that she consider his input and opinions in her own life.
This is a brilliant observation with which I completely concur. My husband and I "submit" to one another's wishes or desires all the time. I would even go so far as to use the loaded term that we "defer" to one another with some frequency, primarily over issues that one or the other has no particularly strong feeling, but where the other does. It's one of the primary reasons our relationship works so well. We genuinely care about what the other person thinks and value their input and opinion.
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Originally Posted by beachmel
I know I've only "heard" you online, but you know what? I like you. I like the way you think. I like the fact that you feel as if relationships are partnerships and that you should bounce ideas off of each other as partners. I really hope that you can find a woman who will work with you as a partner and that neither of you views the other as superior in any way. Find your equal. Know that you ARE equal....that you might approach decisions with very different points of view...and that it's okay for the other to have a "better idea" sometimes. Some people are on the spot thinkers and process information at break-neck speed....however, it's generally age and experience that is responsible for that skill. You, my new friend, are going to have an amazing marriage some day. Some lady is going to be really glad she found you!
I second this heartily! solytaire, is destined for a beautiful and fulfilling marriage. Here's wishing you all the best, soly!
You know, this is an interesting post. I noticed your reference to people who seek a "submissive" or "sweet" s/o. I think it is interesting how: when a woman asks men what they want, or what it is that men think she is doing wrong, and those men share with that woman what they would like in a partner, women so often override their input with their own parameters of what men should want. That makes no sense imo. Why do women ask what men seek if they only want to tell men what they should want?...Ill just never understand that. And it happens constantly.
Nevertheless, Im not sure that women are interpreting the words "sweet" and "submissive" as they were intended. I would like to offer my perspective on the words. Most women assert that they want a man who is sweet as well. So I dont think this is any sort of a misogynist expectation at all; anymoreso than a woman who expects a chivalrous man to open a door for her on a first date is an outdated concept.
Now to the topic of submissiveness. A lot of people misconstrue this for men seeking a subordinate, which is not the same thing. It may sound like mere semantics, but it should not be mistaken for such.
I will be submissive to my wife when I find one. I will submit things to her and consider her input before making my decisions. It doesnt mean that she will command me nor walk all over me. It just means that I will BE WILLING to consider her opinions, and her feelings which will then work in tandem with my own. Not that she will be subordinate to my commands, or that I will be subordinate to hers, nor anything of the like. The WILLINGNESS is the distinguishing factor between the two. One is done under a person's own volition, the other is not. Now if a woman, or women, is/are unwilling to submit to me before making some of their decisions, then we are not for each other. But that is not due to my own arcane outlook of misogyny; but more likely, her own post-feminist outlook, which demands that she take a defensive posture at the idea that any man may ask that she consider his input and opinions in her own life.
But that is just my perspective on that matter. But more interestingly, I find that the fact that you met your husband at 19, suggests volumes to me about how important sweetness, youthful exuberance and girliness is in peoples' criteria for a potential mate. Perhaps you didnt have any of those qualities at age 19. But I would be remiss if I didnt suspect that you did.
Hi solytaire,
Its so simple. You know those immensely strong gentle types of men? How long would it take for him to physically dominate his woman? How long would it take me? 15 seconds? We hold back. We submit. We don't man handle a women. So when we want a woman to psychologically hold back by also submitting so as to not to "woman handle us", they just don't get it. When a woman is strong but tender with me, what a turn on it is.
Yea, if the goal is to antagonize lol. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. What's plain to you isn't so for me, and vice versa. That's how it goes.
I can agree to disagree. But to a larger point, this illustrates why I said in my initial response to you that: "How they interpret the word will depend on who the person listening is"
The cynic will no doubt operate from the secondary definition. And if I recall correctly it was actually the OP who inferred from another poster that he was suggesting that he meant "submissive" in describing his preferences when searching for a mate. I dont remember that he explicitly said that he wanted a submissive woman.
She then volunteered to inform him, based on her own inference of his words, that if men wanted a submissive female then she wouldnt be the ideal selection for those suitors. This is what I meant when I said she seems cynical in her outlook. She chose to imbibe a negative connotation from a word that wasnt really even stated in the first place. That is fine for her to use her best judgment. But I just question how constructive this mentality would be in searching for a potential mate. That was my overarching point.
I take no offense to criteria at all. I merely pointed out that her list is missing some very important attributes that should come before all that other stuff. Are there exceptions that should be taken seriously? Absolutely! My college sweetheart was an incredible man. He was genuinely a nice guy. Loving, kind (which was ON HER LIST), honest, sweet, strong of character -- everything that any woman could ever hope or dream to find in a life partner. I loved him to the depths of my soul. But after 5 years together, when we started talking seriously about marriage, what we had thought all that time wouldn't be an issue between us, became the one thing we could not find a way to reconcile -- religion.
I was gonna mention that one as well. It's right up there with the veg stuff. I have no idea how people of different faiths deal. It would be too weird for me, but I give credit to those who manage. Like my best friend. She can do it.
I can agree to disagree. But to a larger point, this illustrates why I said in my initial response to you that: "How they interpret the word will depend on who the person listening is"
The cynic will no doubt operate from the secondary definition.
I don't know. My dh wouldn't use that word. He knows that it affects some. I would be deeply offended if he used it with me, and his arse would be sore if he did lol. I don't consider myefl a cynic, tho. This also speaks to a larger issue of thoughtfulness and thoughtlessness. Some care how they affect those around them. Others don't, while some, as stated, have ill intent. Of course, there are those that are obvilious to what some terms mean culturally and how they may be received. They fall under dolt in my book. My dad's like that. He'll state, 'I'm just being honest. Do you expect me to lie?' When he could just be a bit more gentle in his choice of words.
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And if I recall correctly it was actually the OP who inferred from another poster that he was suggesting that he meant "submissive" in describing his preferences when searching for a mate. I dont remember that he explicitly said that he wanted a submissive woman.
She then volunteered to inform him, based on her own inference of his words, that if men wanted a submissive female then she wouldnt be the ideal selection for those suitors. This is what I meant when I said she seems cynical in her outlook. She chose to imbibe a negative connotation from a word that wasnt really even stated in the first place. That is fine for her to use her best judgment. But I just question how constructive this mentality would be in searching for a potential mate. That was my overarching point.
You make a good point. I've read the thread, but my memory is poor. I don't know how it all got started, which simply may have been that post, but all the peacock displays in this thread have muddled the waters for me.
This is a brilliant observation with which I completely concur. My husband and I "submit" to one another's wishes or desires all the time. I would even go so far as to use the loaded term that we "defer" to one another with some frequency, primarily over issues that one or the other has no particularly strong feeling, but where the other does. It's one of the primary reasons our relationship works so well. We genuinely care about what the other person thinks and value their input and opinion. I second this heartily! solytaire, is destined for a beautiful and fulfilling marriage. Here's wishing you all the best, soly!
thank you very much Jill for your well wishes. Obviously you have found your soulmate, and Im positive that you two will continue to find unity in love and happiness. May that happiness and love for you be everlasting.
I don't know. My dh wouldn't use that word. He knows that it affects some. I would be deeply offended if he used it with me, and his arse would be sore if he did lol. I don't consider myefl a cynic, tho. This also speaks to a larger issue of thoughtfulness and thoughtlessness. Some care how they affect those around them. Others don't, while some, as stated, have ill intent. Of course, there are those that are obvilious to what some terms mean culturally and how they may be received. They fall under dolt in my book. My dad's like that. He'll state, 'I'm just being honest. Do you expect me to lie?' When he could just be a bit more gentle in his choice of words.
I respect the relationship and understanding that you and your husband have. However I dont understand how it would speak to thoughtfulness in the impersonal and neutral context of someone who is seeking the quality of submissiveness in a mate. *edited for clarity*
I think that any word can connote negativity if it is used in an abusive manner; which then will no doubt be interpreted as being used in an abusive manner. As well it should. If someone says that I "had better submit to them because they are my ruler." I personally dont take umbrage with the idea of submission because by my definition, I can willfully choose not to. I take umbrage with the fact that they think I must do so because they think they are my ruler. At anyrate, this will be my last comment on this topic as my original intent wasnt to derail the thread into arbitrary cloture.
Last edited by solytaire; 11-15-2009 at 01:04 PM..
I respect the relationship and understanding that you and your husband have. However I dont understand how it would speak to thoughtfulness in the impersonal and neutral context of someone who is seeking the quality in a mate.
I'm not sure what you mean by someone seeking the quality in a mate. A submissive quality? or thoughtfulness?
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I think that any word can connote negativity if it is used in an abusive manner; which then will no doubt be interpreted as being used in an abusive manner. As well it should. If someone says that I "had better submit to them because they are my ruler." I personally dont take umbrage with the idea of submission because by my definition, I can willfully choose not to. I take umbrage with the fact that they think I must do so because they think they are my ruler. At anyrate, this will be my last comment on this topic as my original intent wasnt to derail the thread into arbitrary cloture.
Ok, that's good to read. We're going in circles. So, disregard my questions.
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