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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyShouldIWorry If a guy can go ten years without screwing up and still be a jerk, where does that leave the 98% of men who cannot "tiptoe around" for even 6 months?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca
It leaves them dating women who don't think all men are jerks.
But I thought that was taught in Women's Studies 101?
But I thought that was taught in Women's Studies 101?
It's merely one of an endless series of things that you thought wrong. If women around you seem to think you are a jerk, you should examine your own character and behavior instead of reflexively blaming "Women's Studies".
Well, I've got a bit attached to a woman lately, and want her to like me beyond being a friend. But these points are the stumbling blocks:
- She recently was dating a geologist, who at first seemed nice, but turned out to be a dick to her. he was not physically abusive, but would speak down to her and treat her like a trophy.
- She seems turned off at dating for now, but she always seems to attract dicks. Why she does, I think only God knows. I don't treat women like ****, and I want to see not all guys are jerks.
She may seem a bit off dating now, but would I have much hope here?
Everybody is different, but from a woman's perspective, would you be willing to give a guy a chance, even if past experience made things sour?
Keep her on the back burner. She's just having a negative attitude. Stay close with her, be good friends, just have fun, and over time she'll learn to trust you and she'll realize you're different from the dbags. In the meantime, hit on her friends, bang btches at the bars, and go out with other women who have legitimate interest in you.
For gods' sake though, do NOT hold out for her. Don't pass up opportunities with other women because you feel for this girl, you are only hurting yourself. She thinks all dudes are dicks? That's her problem, it's a personal problem, let her figure it out on her own and then over time with trust she'll see you in a very good light.
Sources: myself, this happened to me by accident on several occassions. Unfortunately for those women, I knew them very well and they were major major s1uts in their college days. I never gave them a chance because they passed on me too many times. I have enough respect not to be some girl's Plan B. You should make sure you do the same if it comes to that scenario.
You don't have to convince her that all guys are not jerks, just that you aren't. If you are a jerk, then find someone with low self esteem who likes jerks.
Location: Partisanship Is An Intellectual/Emotional Handicap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca
No one owes the opposite sex anything, least of all proof that men aren't jerks or women aren't b/tches. People who have an axe to grind with the opposite sex are damaged in a way that makes them toxic to even the most loving, supportive relationships. They shouldn't be dating or marrying; they should be alone, working through their problems until such time as they can accept a little responsibility for the failure of their prior relationships and face the opposite sex without preconceived notions or resentment. Moreover, people like that use their resentment towards the opposite sex for manipulation. You can tiptoe around her for a decade and be on your best behavior, but the one time you slip up, you'll be the "typical jerk".
Well, I've got a bit attached to a woman lately, and want her to like me beyond being a friend. But these points are the stumbling blocks:
- She recently was dating a geologist, who at first seemed nice, but turned out to be a dick to her. he was not physically abusive, but would speak down to her and treat her like a trophy.
- She seems turned off at dating for now, but she always seems to attract dicks. Why she does, I think only God knows. I don't treat women like ****, and I want to see not all guys are jerks.
She may seem a bit off dating now, but would I have much hope here?
Everybody is different, but from a woman's perspective, would you be willing to give a guy a chance, even if past experience made things sour?
She needs time to get over the anger this geologist provoked.
As for the rest of your inquiry - you can't make her think all men are not jerks. Based on your post, she doesn't seem to think that. If she did, I would find somebody else, because any woman who is so jaded and bitter because of past experiences that she's going to hate all men has issues you cannot possibly resolve. Such a woman would have to realize that not all men are jerks on her own. YOU cannot do anything.
... It's been many years since I last spoke to or saw Susan, but this woman, while educated, smart, and charming, had major issues with men. She hated men from our culture. No, this was emotional baggage caused by her father, and also by bad boyfriends she had, from our culture.
Susan's family, like mine, and like my best friend Benjamin's (Susan has a sister who is married to Benjamin's brother - the 3 of us all knew each other. Susan has drifted away but Benjamin still sees her once in a while due to the family ties; I do not) is from a traditional culture.
It turns out that Susan's father was very abusive. He beat her mother, and he did not hesitate to bear her or her sister.
One night, the 3 of us were having dinner. We were simply talking about relationships, and Susan said, "you two have so much violence inside of you, but you don't know it."
I was stunned. I'm not a violent man, haven't been in a fistfight in many years, and have never struck a woman other than (sometimes excessively) playful arm-punching in high school. Susan had never seen me strike a woman let alone known of a woman whom I had assaulted. And if I was harmless, Benjamin was - and is, still - even less likely to strike a woman. Despite all this, Susan claimed, to our faces, and without embarrassment, that both Benjamin and I were reservoirs of violence?
I went home that night confused.
It was around at this time that Benjamin told me some things he'd learned from Susan herself and from her sister... namely, Susan's father's abusive ways. Susan was so bitter she had vowed never to even consider dating a man of our culture. She, bluntly speaking, went "white." And she was seemingly proud of it. (As if there have never been abusive men amongst whites. )
Susan later moved to another city, but before she did, we had a long phone conversation and it turned to her issues. Fighting off tears, she started to vent about her father. She stopped short of directly affirming what Benjamin had said - that her father had beat her, her sister, and her mother. Her voice quivered with rage and pain, with words like, "a man is supposed to be loving! How can a man beat his own girls? How?"
I took it patiently, told her softly she was right to feel that way, and even told her to vent. Then I began to encourage and to console her. With not a small measure of surprise and even some sarcasm, she said, "why are you so nurturing?"
I asked her for clarification.
"You're a man. And you're from the same culture as my dad. You're not supposed to be like this."
That was the money line. She was so thoroughly influenced by all her bad experiences, but apparently primarily by what her father had done, that she thought all men of our background were like this. And had Benjamin or I tried to convince her otherwise, Susan's views were so set that nothing we said would have changed her views.
It took time - years, literally - for her to come around. I don't know if that phone call was a start of any kind.
But Susan's story illustrates how a person's views may be deeply ingrained and rooted, and that they will change only over time - and rarely if ever through another person's exhortations or arguments.
Well, I've got a bit attached to a woman lately, and want her to like me beyond being a friend. But these points are the stumbling blocks:
- She recently was dating a geologist, who at first seemed nice, but turned out to be a dick to her. he was not physically abusive, but would speak down to her and treat her like a trophy.
- She seems turned off at dating for now, but she always seems to attract dicks. Why she does, I think only God knows. I don't treat women like ****, and I want to see not all guys are jerks.
She may seem a bit off dating now, but would I have much hope here?
Everybody is different, but from a woman's perspective, would you be willing to give a guy a chance, even if past experience made things sour?
Find someone else. She doesn't just ATTRACT dicks....she DATES them. Playing the "nice guy" is potentialyl just not going to get her attention.
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I don't treat women like ****, and I want to see not all guys are jerks.
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