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Old 06-28-2010, 12:32 PM
 
20,629 posts, read 19,289,703 times
Reputation: 8229

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
This thread has become tiresome but after reading all the garbage coming from just about every male poster pontificating on the evils of feminism, I am just so happy I have a SO who supports my independence, who is kind and sweet and doesn't think I am any less of a woman because I am a feminist.

Hi Djuna,

Its worthless posts like this that give self declared feminists a bad name. Stop wasting pixels. If you are not specific as to exactly what offends you, the monkeys won't know which bananas are monkey hands off. I never deprive my victims of the reasons why I don't like them. Now you know why I don't like you.

 
Old 06-28-2010, 01:11 PM
 
20,629 posts, read 19,289,703 times
Reputation: 8229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
Men like that want the women not to be independent--and then they'll complain that the women just married them for their money.

Hi Avienne,

Women will complain men are not assertive enough and then want their independence. Women could be two different women, one of which wants an assertive man while another wants her independence. The woman who wants her independence might live in a quiet suburb while the one looking for an assertive man might live in a gang infested neighborhood.

See the problem? One man or woman cannot form an entire composite of all the possible demands.

See previous post which could be summed up with the word "flush". Debate will change nothing. No "feminist" would ever have all her demands met by me since I would simply shrug my shoulders realizing its like every other transaction; what is offered will not necessarily be what I am willing to pay. She is not going to be able to set the terms of what it takes to impress me anymore than I can. We just don't seem to know what that is anymore. We either impress each other, or we don't. If being a good feminist meant allowing my SO to work 60 hours a week so we could see each other between our interlocking shifts once a week, count me a sexist pig. If I still get what I want, then count me a radical. Is liking to have a bunch of women around feminist or not I wonder? However I will not generally be interested in the career or the curtains.
 
Old 06-28-2010, 01:16 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,962,256 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
There is no reason to believe these are linked.

If anything, women are not choosing to STAY with men who father our children. How does that prove women are being less choosy? I also don't see how marriage not being a factor allows us to be less choosy..why would a marriageless society make us less selective in our mates? Are you talking about monogamy rates rather than marriage rates?
No, Im talking about marriage rates. The benchmark for true monogamy within a society. Traditional marriage is a culturally contracting monogamy. Without that contract, of course people will be less selective. This applies to men as well - this is why divorce allowed a severance of assets. Either choose wisely, or be relieved of your assets when your marriage falls through. If marriage rates are declining and out of wedlock birthrates are increasing, then Im able to deduce that the men that women are selecting are of lower quality. Certainly men



Quote:
Honestly, here's the biggest problem with your argument: yo uhaven't really defined your terms. Are you talking about the tendency of women away from moral well-raised and respectful men, or away from hardworking men, or away from the upper socioeconomic class, or away from what exactly? You are understand the terms seem to keep changing- although I see what you are saying to an extent, it's not yet a clear rational argument. No study can be conducted to find whether women are *actually* pairing up/having sex with (there's a major difference between these actions too) a certain kind of man, IF you don't clearly define what type of man that is.
Hmmm...I figured you would breech the crux of my argument, and you did. That being: What am I considering women's poor choice in men? Marriage or simply sex (yes, I make a distinction between pairing up, and marriage). I suspect that you are terming it "pairing up" in kind of a moral equivalence fashion to downplay the reality that marriage rates are indeed declining. Likely followed up by something to the effect that marriage is just a cultural institution that disserved women anyway etc. I might be wrong, but its just my initial perception.

Im talking about the tendency of women toward slovenly, underemployed, jailbirds. Moral, well raised and consistently employed men do not fall into this category.

But throughout this world's history, marriage (as opposed to just pairing up) has been the benchmark for monogamous relationships. considering such, for sure women arent marrying as much, because as some hypothesize: they dont need to nowdays. And they dont need to. But the fact remains that anytime something is "needed"
standards will be higher than when it is not truly "needed". so no, while women may be shacking up and sexing in higher numbers today, with legal incentives and consequences removed, they certainly dont seek the same virtuous qualities in men as they did when seeking a longterm partner within a legally backed institution.

so this means that today's women should be selective for simple sex purposes. This part is true - they are very selective for superficial sexual purposes and beyond that, their selectivity wanes.



Quote:
I am sorry if you feel that women are leaving healthy upstanding good men for prison inmates, but I don't know who you've been hanging around and I certainly don't know any instances of that at all.
I hang around society, and its clear to me from my observation that women are exercising a preference for less monogamous men and men who dont care about education nor work. Anyway, dont be sorry...I feel pretty good about my observations and Im enjoying the exchange of ideas with you...
 
Old 06-28-2010, 01:58 PM
 
3,261 posts, read 5,296,996 times
Reputation: 3986
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi Avienne,

Women will complain men are not assertive enough and then want their independence. Women could be two different women, one of which wants an assertive man while another wants her independence. The woman who wants her independence might live in a quiet suburb while the one looking for an assertive man might live in a gang infested neighborhood.

See the problem? One man or woman cannot form an entire composite of all the possible demands.

See previous post which could be summed up with the word "flush". Debate will change nothing. No "feminist" would ever have all her demands met by me since I would simply shrug my shoulders realizing its like every other transaction; what is offered will not necessarily be what I am willing to pay. She is not going to be able to set the terms of what it takes to impress me anymore than I can. We just don't seem to know what that is anymore. We either impress each other, or we don't. If being a good feminist meant allowing my SO to work 60 hours a week so we could see each other between our interlocking shifts once a week, count me a sexist pig. If I still get what I want, then count me a radical. Is liking to have a bunch of women around feminist or not I wonder? However I will not generally be interested in the career or the curtains.
I agree, there is no they or all of them. I certainly don't see the feminist movement, which I have benefitted from, to be a sign that I now I have the right to be more like a man, and therefore men should start being more like a woman. However, there are a lot of absolutes being hurled around and they seem to be coming from a select few (generally male) posters. It seems some people think that feminism is a zero-sum movement, at the expense of men.

I believe the opposite to be true, that it is non-zero sum, both for society in general and in my marriage specifically, because it doesn't just benefit me (a woman) but the collective (my husband and my family). I am also relatively old-fashioned; I personally believe there are roles in my home that I naturally assumed as a woman, not because my husband couldn't do them, not because I had no other choice, but because I had comparative advantage doing them. That's the nice thing, I have a choice and my husband has a choice to accept or not accept my choice.

Last edited by robee70; 06-28-2010 at 03:04 PM..
 
Old 06-28-2010, 04:36 PM
 
4,837 posts, read 8,843,643 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyShouldIWorry View Post
BTW, I heard it through the grapevine that John pulled the plug, last Friday. Who will you get to post your material? I can see now why he was so fearless!
Somebody told me they knew Wednesday. His calendar was a tipoff. Sort of what you might see in a jail cell, counting down the days.

Perhaps we now need a section on the bulletin board like the "women's Committee" has. Only seems fair!
 
Old 06-28-2010, 04:43 PM
 
9,408 posts, read 13,715,235 times
Reputation: 20394
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi Djuna,

Its worthless posts like this that give self declared feminists a bad name. Stop wasting pixels. If you are not specific as to exactly what offends you, the monkeys won't know which bananas are monkey hands off. I never deprive my victims of the reasons why I don't like them. Now you know why I don't like you.
Am I supposed to care whether you like me or not?

I was stating my point of view abut the endless 'feminists are evil' posts. I am not a poster child for feminists, I have my own ideals and I support some feminist theories but not all. At least I can define what my feminist philosophies are, unlike half the posters who lump all feminist theory in the same basket then bash that basket and women as an entire group.

If you don't like my posts then ignore them or put me on ignore or shut the hell up with your whining about my 'worthless posts'.
 
Old 06-28-2010, 04:54 PM
 
4,837 posts, read 8,843,643 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
.....so this means that today's women should be selective for simple sex purposes. This part is true - they are very selective for superficial sexual purposes and beyond that, their selectivity wanes......
Its been proven that younger women, in particular, have long lists but one thing they know above else, if they don't find an attractive guy, he'll never be attractive.

They believe that many of the other things can be changed but for the most part, this is a fallacy.
 
Old 06-28-2010, 09:20 PM
 
20,948 posts, read 19,015,110 times
Reputation: 10270
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyokoMariaUrameshi View Post
Feminism - Salon.com


It just seems like more and more people are miserable.Every married person or person in a relationship that I know is unhappy and they tell me don't get married and have kids it ruins everything. Or "men suck, they are pig, dogs" or "women are too independant, they need to get back to the kitchen". Everyone is always getting divorces, its like you're bound to fail if you marry. I remember there was a time that people stayed married for life now, people have 48 hour marriages.

I glad that feminism allowed me to work, get an education, vote, and gave me abortion rights but I never asked for it to make everything equal! I hate "going Dutch" or paying for dates and meals for a man, I believe that a man is suppose to pay for dinner and dates, I would only pay for a guy unless it's his b-day, graudation, he got a promotion or a raise. I miss men being MEN! Holding doors, taking charge, being the leader, being go getters. There is nothing more sexier than a dominant Alpha male.

I don't 'serve a man' just because it tells me to in the Bible. I serve a man out of respect to him. I serve a man out of love for him. I serve a man out of a loyalty to him.I like the view from atop my pedestal and see no reason to come down.If you enjoy your feminism, then more power to you. Just don't take away my right to not be a feminist.
Thank you for the compliment!

It actually made it easier for men to get laid.
 
Old 06-28-2010, 09:49 PM
 
4,837 posts, read 8,843,643 times
Reputation: 3026
Originally Posted by RyokoMariaUrameshi:
"I miss men being MEN! Holding doors, taking charge, being the leader, being go getters. There is nothing more sexier than a dominant Alpha male."

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale View Post
Thank you for the compliment!

It actually made it easier for men to get laid.
For alpha males, anyhow. And they don't even hold doors, either, unlike other men!
 
Old 06-28-2010, 11:26 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,253,323 times
Reputation: 55556
i dont feel as do many on these post-- that guys are jerks.
i feel that feminism has had its day and its time to move on.
btw have you heard this one
what do you say to a woman with 2 black eyes?
nothing
i already told her twice.
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