Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Tsk, tsk, you are looking at it far too simplistically. I have spend some time reading history and economics. Many histories revolve around military power which of course completely disregards the finance behind it as one example. The gold coins paid to the legions were not see marching about the Roman world but legions would not have been were it not for finance.
If men have power what has power over men? How many times in history do I read of a woman whispering in a man's ear? How did John the Baptist lose his head? Why did Nero burn the Christians in pitch? How many other times do I see noble women guide their sons to the status of emperor or king?
Power was a matter of class, not sex. As usual, women tend to lag at the top but are not quite so miserable at the bottom as the worst of men.[/quote]
You bring up a good point, however, I believe that I have stated that you can't simply blame one gender for everything....that includes early times. If Cleopatra was a viscious, vindictive wench, that doesn't mean that all women should be seen in the same light, does it? As for your statement "women are not quite so miserable at the bottom as the worst of men"... you don't know this... you THINK this..... you PERCEIVE it to be true, but it's all a matter of your perception/opinion. You don't know HOW miserable some of these women are, any more that I do. That statement is unbelievably gender-biased.
That statement can be equated to some made on here earlier about "rape survivors". Every rape experience can not be compared. One person's experience may be far more horrific than another's. That's like saying that a teenager, who had been raped/molested repeatedly, for years, can be compared to the 23 yr old who got drunk at a bar, went to an after-hour party, and had a guy rape her when she was passed out. They are both rape survivors...but in no way can they be seen as similar experiences that they can both "get over".
Lets see
One of the main ways was that women could not vote, thus had no power over legislation which inacts law that control peoples day to day lives.
Other things like women were not allowed an education, were not allowed to own property and could not hold most jobs meant women had no financial power which contributed to no legal power. That in itself if abuse when one segment of the population purpously denies another segment the same liberties.
Men no longer have exclusive rights to this power so are finding it increasing difficult to abuse it. I dont know that women as a whole are doing anything different. According to some, women are trying to gain a monopoly on this power and put men in the same position women were once in. Others will argue that women are rightfully harnessing this power to improve society and their own lives.
So in short, women were slaves historically, uneducated, unable to own property, no financial power (I'm questioning just how far and wide you all have cast your history nets, but okay, let's just stick with what you're saying) -- and yet another woman just told me that no one questioned these things, apparently not even women, UNTIL the 20th century, or close to.
So what changed THEN to make that one woman, that ONE woman somewhere, lift up her head and say "Hey, WAIT a minute!"
But plenty of Women's Studies (ahem) clearly indicate superiority of women in so many ways --"""
I don't pay attention to anything that says either gender is superior....neither is.
HOW could all of this have come to pass? And WHAT changed in the 20th century so that women managed to overturn these things which apparently had lasted for thousands of years at the hands of evil men?""""""
FEMINISM.
"""""Are you saying it took thousands of years for women to figure out what was wrong and speak up?"""
No, not for all, 7th century Ireland was more advanced on equal rights than 20th century US. There have been "feminists" (although not called that) for centuries. But look at the political scene...how far does speaking truth to power get you...and how fast? Look at this forum...the ancient sexist traditions are STILL alive. Tradition dies hard.
Thousands of years to figure out a way around whatever it was men did to keep you down?
Yes, thousands of years of "Men in Power". Says a lot for women that they overcame all those years of abuse and ignorance.
So things were FINE before; in which case, men had the power and things were just fine.
You're not going to tell me that things weren't fine, women simply had no idea things weren't fine, are you?
Things were fine before for those who had the power. You could ask a similar question as to why, if everyone knew slavery was wrong, did it take decades for it to be abolished in America?
If women (and blacks, and other marginalized people) did not have the right to vote or run for office, how were their concerns going to be addressed? They needed to bend the ears of sympathetic men, who had to speak for them. The late 19th early 20th century, like I mentioned earlier, was when the progressive movement finally got some teeth and was able to come to the forefront.
Things were fine before for those who had the power. You could ask a similar question as to why, if everyone knew slavery was wrong, did it take decades for it to be abolished in America?
If women (and blacks, and other marginalized people) did not have the right to vote or run for office, how were their concerns going to be addressed? They needed to bend the ears of sympathetic men, who had to speak for them. The late 19th early 20th century, like I mentioned earlier, was when the progressive movement finally got some teeth and was able to come to the forefront.
You make it sound as though we invented slavery. If we're supposed to be looking at history, then shouldn't we recognize that slavery was widely practiced, often by the very tribes from which colonial Americans took their slaves?
You still haven't addressed that the women in "slave" positions apparently didn't question their lot or realize anything was wrong, OR you're suggesting that NO man in NO society historically had ever payed any attention whatsoever, that they were all immoral and/or powerless until then?
Why, oh WHY isn't this jiving for me? WHAT is it I'm missing?!?
But plenty of Women's Studies (ahem) clearly indicate superiority of women in so many ways -- HOW could all of this have come to pass? And WHAT changed in the 20th century so that women managed to overturn these things which apparently had lasted for thousands of years at the hands of evil men?
Are you saying it took thousands of years for women to figure out what was wrong and speak up? Thousands of years to figure out a way around whatever it was men did to keep you down?
No. Brawn, strenth, numbers, armies, weapons gave one group power over the other. Men are physically stronger than women, some tribes better warriors than others and those with the strength conquered and enslaved the others.
Yes it has taken thousands of years for conquered and enslaved peoples to pull out of their servitude and gain their civil rights and stand on equal footing. How long did it take for slaves in the US to gain their freedom and how long after that for blacks to gain respect, rights and equality to the ruling majority? It is not as though they hadnt figured out what was wrong and could just say, hey! This isnt fair and things changed overnight.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, I may be a cow (according to you) but YOU sure have the Bull---- !